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  1. Standard member Dutch Defense
    Stealer of Souls
    03 Mar '07 21:11
    1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.0-0 gxf3 6.Qxf3. Game 3187446
  2. Standard member ketan
    Learning Chess
    03 Mar '07 21:18
    Originally posted by Dutch Defense
    1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 g4 5.0-0 gxf3 6.Qxf3. Game 3187446
    5. 0-0 is unbelievable.. don't know why did he let you get that night
  3. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    03 Mar '07 21:27 / 7 edits
    Originally posted by ketan
    5. 0-0 is unbelievable.. don't know why did he let you get that night
    5.0-0 is very old move known from 18th century. This gambit is still not refuted. In that game white have played not bad but instead of 7.d3 I would prefer 7.e5! Qxe5 8.Bxf7+ kxf7 9.d4! with powerful attack for 2 pieces. But 7.d3 is playable too and in final position of that game white should not resign - they had good play. 3 pawns for piece is good compensation, especially in endgame.
  4. Standard member Dutch Defense
    Stealer of Souls
    03 Mar '07 21:36
    Originally posted by ketan
    5. 0-0 is unbelievable.. don't know why did he let you get that night
    Most Muzio Gambit games are draws because white gets a good position while black is up a knight.
  5. 03 Mar '07 21:49
    Originally posted by Korch
    5.0-0 is very old move known from 18th century. This gambit is still not refuted. In that game white have played not bad but instead of 7.d3 I would prefer 7.e5! Qxe5 8.Bxf7+ kxf7 9.d4! with powerful attack for 2 pieces. But 7.d3 is playable too and in final position of that game white should not resign - they had good play. 3 pawns for piece is good compensation, especially in endgame.
    That's the Double Muzio Gambit - and is less sound than the line played, you'll find with some research that black generally gets compensation for the two pieces if he plays properly.
  6. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    03 Mar '07 22:01
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    That's the Double Muzio Gambit - and is less sound than the line played, you'll find with some research that black generally gets compensation for the two pieces if he plays properly.
    black gets compensation?? Its white who sacrifices 2 pieces and white needs to get compensation.
  7. 03 Mar '07 22:04 / 3 edits
    Here's one of my Double Muzio gambit games in progress on chessmaniac.com. The best I can probably do know is a draw because of an earlier move he made with the Queen. Feel free to make any comments...

    [FEN]3r4/pp3qkp/2nQ1n2/8/3N2b1/8/PPP3PP/R4R1K w - - 0 22[/FEN]

    EDIT: I can't get the board to paste with the FEN from chesspad. Any suggestions?
  8. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    03 Mar '07 22:09
    Originally posted by 93confirmed
    Here's one of my Double Muzio gambit games in progress on chessmaniac.com. The best I can probably do know is a draw because of an earlier move he made with the Queen. Feel free to make any comments...

    [FEN]3r4/pp3qkp/2nQ1n2/8/3N2b1/8/PPP3PP/R4R1K w - - 0 22[/FEN]

    EDIT: I can't get the board to paste with the FEN from chesspad. Any suggestions?
    Maybe post moves instead?
  9. 03 Mar '07 22:19
    Here's the game:

    1. e2-e4 e7-e5 2. f2-f4 e5xf4 3. Ng1-f3 g7-g5 4. Bf1-c4 g5-g4 5. O-O g4xf3 6. Qd1xf3 Qd8-f6 7. e4-e5 Qf6xe5 8. Bc4xf7+ Ke8xf7 9. d2-d4 Qe5xd4+ 10. Bc1-e3 Qd4-g7 11. Be3xf4 Ng8-f6 12. Bf4xc7 Nb8-c6 13. Nb1-c3 Bf8-c5+ 14. Kg1-h1 d7-d6 15. Nc3-e4 Bc5-d4 16. Ne4xd6+ Kf7-f8 17. Nd6-b5 Bc8-g4 18. Qf3-d5 Qg7-f7 19. Qd5-d6+ Kf8-g7 20. Nb5xd4 Ra8-d8 21. Bc7xd8 *
  10. 03 Mar '07 22:23
    Originally posted by Korch
    black gets compensation?? Its white who sacrifices 2 pieces and white needs to get compensation.
    I meant white doesn't get compensation - sorry. Black with proper play should be ok.
  11. Standard member Krapsparov
    Don't baptise cats!!
    03 Mar '07 22:25
  12. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    03 Mar '07 22:25
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    I meant white doesn't get compensation - sorry. Black with proper play should be ok.m not
    I`m not sure about it - these positions are so wild and complicated that even engines can`t rate them too precise.
  13. 03 Mar '07 22:27
    Originally posted by Korch
    I`m not sure about it - these positions are so wild and complicated that even engines can`t rate them too precise.
    This was based on analysis of some GM games that I saw on chessgames.com - the general consensus among KG players is that the Double Muzio isn't sound. I remember Northern Lad agreeing with this sentiment - CC it just isn't a good idea.
  14. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    03 Mar '07 22:30
    Originally posted by 93confirmed
    Here's the game:

    1. e2-e4 e7-e5 2. f2-f4 e5xf4 3. Ng1-f3 g7-g5 4. Bf1-c4 g5-g4 5. O-O g4xf3 6. Qd1xf3 Qd8-f6 7. e4-e5 Qf6xe5 8. Bc4xf7+ Ke8xf7 9. d2-d4 Qe5xd4+ 10. Bc1-e3 Qd4-g7 11. Be3xf4 Ng8-f6 12. Bf4xc7 Nb8-c6 13. Nb1-c3 Bf8-c5+ 14. Kg1-h1 d7-d6 15. Nc3-e4 Bc5-d4 16. Ne4xd6+ Kf7-f8 17. Nd6-b5 Bc8-g4 18. Qf3-d5 Qg7-f7 19. Qd5-d6+ Kf8-g7 20. Nb5xd4 Ra8-d8 21. Bc7xd8 *
    11.Qxf4+ is better - 11...Nf6 12.Bd4 Be7 13.Nc3 d6 14.Bxf6 Bxf6 15. Nd5 Nd7 16.Rae1 with powerful attack.
  15. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    03 Mar '07 22:37 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    This was based on analysis of some GM games that I saw on chessgames.com - the general consensus among KG players is that the Double Muzio isn't sound. I remember Northern Lad agreeing with this sentiment - CC it just isn't a good idea.
    Well.... GM`s are only people too and they makes mistakes quite often too.

    For example GM Keen was (or maybe still is) sure that he have refuted Grob in his game against Basman in 1980, but it is not so - I have analysed that game with Rybka (for some hours) and found where white could play better with comfortable (I would even say - slightly better) position. (Small offtopic: Than more I`m analysing Grob, than more makes me change my mind about this opening - it seems very playable)

    Also don`t forget that evaluations of different opening lines have changed quite often. And these evaluations are mostly created by GM`s.