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  1. Subscriber RDMonline
    07 Mar '08 07:39
    I've decided to open my own thread because I see little support or belief in a player that has been a member for a long time (and an honoured member).

    1) If anyone has a suspicion that a user is an engine user then he or she has every right to report that user.
    2) There is a process to follow and, hopefully, the outcome will be the correct one.
    3) In the instance of Cludi - this process was superceded by a trial by media . We all know that the moderation process takes a long time to achieve a result and, what with the recent issues on RHP, this process might have been extended. So no verdict has yet been delivered but we are losing a player who, in all probability, is innocent.
    4) Reasons why I think he is innocent. Why would he start cheating after 2 years of consistently good play? He seems to respect chess too much to use and engine when playing. There is a good chance that he is good enough that a few of him moves would emulate and engine therefore making him look suspicious. The question is why would he do it? Its just not logical.
    5) Cludi has been above 2000 for more than 3 years and only now the suspicion has been raised. Why would he wake up one day and decide to use an engine?

    Why can't we just wait and let the mods do their job?
  2. Subscriber stratosph3R3
    The Peacemaker
    07 Mar '08 07:59
    The public forms are like a tabloid newspaper - full of sensationalism, half-truths and misinformation and it is for that reason I tend to keep my opinions to myself and generally avoid making any posts.

    It saddens me that the level of innuendo and suspicion is forcing a split of RHP into the factions of Cludi or David Tebb.

    I have played a number of 2000+ rated players, Cludi and David Tebb included, and many of these higher rated players have been willing to provide constructive criticism during the course of a game or provide a postmortem of game which has forced me to think more and gradually develop my game - this to me is what the RHP community is about.
  3. Subscriber RDMonline
    07 Mar '08 08:10
    I have read Cludi's website quite a bit and I find it very interesting and informative.

    I just can't believe that soneone who respects chess so much would dishonour it by using an engine in games. Just totally illogical to me.

    And he also doesn't strike me as a guy that would take satisfaction in winning a tournament by using an engine.

    In saying that - I am a mid 1300's player (at the moment - it might go up or down) and, playing Cludi or Tebb would be like playing an engine for me.

    But I think RHP is lessened by this whole debacle and I wait and see, and will respect, any decisions made by the moderators.
  4. 07 Mar '08 08:16
    I have never played any of the people named as being involved here.

    At my skill level I am not qualified to judge the rights or wrongs of this case, so have tried not to take sides, only to object when the mob hysteria reached ridiculous heights. That lack of qualification doesn't seem to have stopped a lot of sub-1500 posters though.
  5. 07 Mar '08 10:17
    Originally posted by RDM
    I've decided to open my own thread because I see little support or belief in a player that has been a member for a long time (and an honoured member).

    1) If anyone has a suspicion that a user is an engine user then he or she has every right to report that user.
    2) There is a process to follow and, hopefully, the outcome will be the correct one.
    3) In the in ...[text shortened]... one day and decide to use an engine?

    Why can't we just wait and let the mods do their job?
    This doesn't seem to have registered with a lot of people yet, so I'll keep repeating it:

    A cheating allegation against Cludi was submitted in the usual way, but half way through the process the game mods forum was closed. As far as I know, the person who accused Cludi and the moderator who was analysing his games were not informed about what was going to happen next, and indeed it seemed like nothing was going to be done.

    In the meantime Cludi was allowed to continue playing and had started games in the 1/14 league.

    It was not a case of waiting for the game mods to make a decision - there were no game mods because the whole system had been scrapped!

    As for why someone who can play chess to a pretty high level would start using an engine - the simple fact is that in chess there's always someone better than you. If Cludi cheated, then I would guess it was because he found that there were some people on the site that he just couldn't beat. Maybe he started off blunder checking (decide on your move, enter it on the engine and make sure it isn't losing tactically) and then progressed to looking at the engine's analysis and using this to help him decide what to play.
  6. Subscriber RDMonline
    07 Mar '08 10:47 / 1 edit
    FatLady - I've read your profile and I'm sad to see that you are leaving. However, leaving because of engine users isn't such a good idea. I think enough is being done about it.

    I fully support the decision to disband the game moderation because one of the moderators is suspect. Therefore another means for moderation needs to be though of.

    Just because you can't see something happening doesn't mean it isn't happening.

    We shouldn't even be AWARE that this person is under investigation but someone decided to make this a free for all. I object strongly to that because, regardless of the evidence, Cludi is leaving and, because you seem to have made up your mind that he is guilty, we're also losing another strong player.

    Perhaps you can provide answers as to how this matter can be resolved.

    As for allowing him to continue: All suspected engine users are allowed to continue until guilt is proven. Otherwise I could just accuse someone who I think is a challenge in a tournament and they would not be allowed to enter the tournament.
  7. Standard member jonbeckett73
    jonbeckett73
    07 Mar '08 11:05
    My two penneth - I used to run a big website, and the same situation happened there - the monkeys started trying to run the zoo - as you are all (unwittingly) doing.

    By raking over the past and fighting with one another you are doing more and more damage to the community you are a part of.
  8. Standard member agentreno
    Addicted
    07 Mar '08 11:16
    I echo the previous posters sentiments. Let this rest.
  9. 07 Mar '08 11:18
    Originally posted by RDM
    FatLady - I've read your profile and I'm sad to see that you are leaving. However, leaving because of engine users isn't such a good idea. I think enough is being done about it.

    I fully support the decision to disband the game moderation because one of the moderators is suspect. Therefore another means for moderation needs to be though of.

    Just because yo ...[text shortened]... nk is a challenge in a tournament and they would not be allowed to enter the tournament.
    I made up my mind to stop playing online chess several months ago, it was nothing to do with Cludi. The engine users I played will probably never be banned. I don't really have a great deal of faith in the game mod system, I'd prefer something semi-automatic, e.g. analysis of games of anyone who reaches a certain rating or who beats a strong player whilst still provisional.

    I've looked at alternative sites and I don't think any of them do an adequate job of preventing engine use (I'm probably expecting too much), so I've just stopped playing online chess. This is no big deal as I play quite a bit of over-the-board chess and enjoy that much more than even the best online game. Online chess is my methadone to the heroin of OTB play.

    I still play blitz, sometimes on this site (not often, I find the interface really slows me down) but more often as a guest on playchess.com.

    I wouldn't expect someone to be suspended if any other player accused them of cheating, but perhaps if initial analysis suggested something might be dodgy.
  10. 07 Mar '08 11:19
    Originally posted by agentreno
    I echo the previous posters sentiments. Let this rest.
    I'm going to continue posting replies when I think people have not understood what happened.
  11. 07 Mar '08 12:08
    Originally posted by jonbeckett73
    My two penneth - I used to run a big website, and the same situation happened there - the monkeys started trying to run the zoo - as you are all (unwittingly) doing.

    By raking over the past and fighting with one another you are doing more and more damage to the community you are a part of.
    Are you calling us monkeys!!
  12. 07 Mar '08 12:19
    Originally posted by adramforall
    Are you calling us monkeys!!
    OOoOO!!!!! OOo oo oooo ooo OOO!! *throws banana*
  13. 07 Mar '08 12:29
    Regardless of what people think, there was suspicion, allegations were made, things were looked into and then a decision was made to stop due process.

    Whether the person in question cheated or not, only he will know in his heart of hearts. Me personally, if I knew for a fact I was not cheating, I would defend my corner, and not let anyone push me away. In my opinion the only reason to leave would be if there was some truth in the allegations.

    What is more galling, given the overall record of the player in question and the fact that possible engine use has only been noticed recently, is the far more obvious cheats that are still on the site.

    There are a quite a few who have played at 1200-1400 level for a few years then suddenly jump to 1950+ They stand out like the proverbial sore thumb, yet remain.

    I know they were reported a long time ago, but they are still here.

    When a players ratings graph shows a steeper ascent than Mount Everest you need to ask why.
  14. 07 Mar '08 13:02
    Originally posted by adramforall
    Whether the person in question cheated or not, only he will know in his heart of hearts. Me personally, if I knew for a fact I was not cheating, I would defend my corner, and not let anyone push me away. In my opinion the only reason to leave would be if there was some truth in the allegations.
    But that is you. Some people take the attitude of: Why bother? Why should I have to defend myself against a bunch of anonymous people on an internet gaming site?

    I am not saying that he did or didn't cheat. I agree with you that in the end ultimately only he will know if he cheated or not.
  15. Subscriber RDMonline
    07 Mar '08 13:07
    I'm sure once the new Game Moderation has been implemented then the matter of guilt will be resolved once and for all.

    Because - sure as nuts - people will need this resolution