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  1. Joined
    22 Sep '20
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    19 Dec '20 00:33
    Obviously I am going to study chess more and try to take more than 10 seconds per move on this site but my 2021 new year chess resolution is to master the Bishop and Knight and King vs King checkmate.

    So that means I will have to read up on it and use a computer program and play it over and over and over until I can do it in my sleep.

    A long time ago I read a book or a magazine about two strong masters and the losing master went into this endgame and the other master offered a draw because he did not know the forced win.

    Apparently it happens a lot.

    I would be mortified to find myself with King + Bishop + Knight vs King and not know what to do 😳
  2. Joined
    10 Jan '08
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    12886
    19 Dec '20 03:55
    I'm going to continue never reading anything about chess and just move the pieces around hoping for my opponent to make a mistake. I think this can take me to 1800.
  3. Joined
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    19 Dec '20 06:44
    @Trev33

    It can, but if your opponent average rating isn't 1800 also, you would only be fooling yourself.
  4. Standard membermchill
    Cryptic
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    19 Dec '20 07:332 edits
    @cheesemaster said
    Obviously I am going to study chess more and try to take more than 10 seconds per move on this site but my 2021 new year chess resolution is to master the Bishop and Knight and King vs King checkmate.

    So that means I will have to read up on it and use a computer program and play it over and over and over until I can do it in my sleep.

    A long time ago I read a book ...[text shortened]...

    I would be mortified to find myself with King + Bishop + Knight vs King and not know what to do 😳
    I resolve to completely play through all exercises games and tests in any chess book I own, BEFORE I buy any more. I've been very undisciplined about this up until now. Exemptions only to the 2 Informants I own, but I will work through the middle and endgame exercises in the back of these books. Almost finished with Polgar's tactics book. Fundamentals of Chess Endings by Muller and Lamprecht next.

    Cheesemaster - Very good thought you have on playing through exercises repeatedly. I've been doing the same.

    When I return to in person OTB tournaments, I want to return as a unexpectedly strong player, to be taken seriously - NOT some average drone!
  5. Joined
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    19 Dec '20 07:401 edit
    "When I return to in person OTB tournaments, I want to return as a unexpectedly strong player, to be taken seriously - NOT some average drone!" - mchill

    That's my plan too 😉
  6. Subscriber64squaresofpain
    The drunk knight
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    19 Dec '20 15:19
    I plan to play more live tournaments in 2021, just didn't play enough this year...

    Reveal Hidden Content
    because of ******* covid!
  7. New Braunfels, Texas
    Joined
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    19 Dec '20 16:00
    @Cheesemaster

    "... Bishop and Knight and King vs King checkmate..."

    Have you ever had one of these? I have not. Hey GP, do your magic and tell us how many games at RHP ended like this.

    😛
  8. Joined
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    19 Dec '20 18:59
    @cheesemaster said
    @Trev33

    It can, but if your opponent average rating isn't 1800 also, you would only be fooling yourself.
    Opponent average rating is flawed, I could enter a few tournaments and be handed a bunch of 1000s but play mostly people rated around 1700 normally and my opponent average rating would be around 1500. I think if you can sustain a rating over time you belong there regardless of OAR, yes I can probably reach 1800 with a bit of luck but realistically my real rating will always be around 1600.
  9. Joined
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    19 Dec '20 20:46
    @montymoose said
    @Cheesemaster

    "... Bishop and Knight and King vs King checkmate..."

    Have you ever had one of these? I have not. Hey GP, do your magic and tell us how many games at RHP ended like this.

    😛
    I've never had the opportunity...yet.
  10. Joined
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    19 Dec '20 20:511 edit
    @Trev33

    Avoid the open tournaments and only play in the banded "class" tournaments. i.e 1650-1850 only etc etc.
    Or just avoid tournaments and challenge strong players...that's what I do.
  11. e4
    Joined
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    20 Dec '20 00:011 edit
    Hi MontyMoose,

    I have 668 KBN v K. RHP games The Bishop and Knight has won 404 times
    so 264 players have failed. One funny point is a few players (I counter 4)
    did it but a year or so later forgot how to do it and drew!

    Quite a few times players have headed for it. Gone into ending a Bishop up,
    swapped off everything and promoted to a Knight...then a few drew!

    Also some defending have not counted the moves and have been mated
    way past the 50 moves.

    A few months back I reading about an experienced 2000+ OTB player who
    can do it with ease with v any computer but v humans OTB he struggles.
    This is because the computer can see the mate coming and plays moves to
    make the mate the longest possible and lad found it easy.

    With a clock ticking in an OTB game the human plays awkward moves,
    not the best moves (got mated quicker) but the lad found he had to think more
    because his opponent wriggled out his patterns.

    Only had to do it once in 50 years. Never studied it just knew you had to get the
    King into a corner controlled by the Bishop, took it from and did it.

    Blackburne was of the opinion learning how to do it was a waste of time.
    See this cutting from the Cheltenham Examiner,1st November 1905.

    https://www.ecforum.org.uk/download/file.php?id=1295

    The one I've found awkward is Queen and King v King and Rook. Had that a few
    times and have done it but only due to basic blunders by the Rook player.

    With best play I toiled, I tried it v a computer quite a while back and failed.
    In that ending the computer plays unhuman moves moving the Rook all
    over the board away from the King and you think you can just check check
    check and pick it up. You can't!
    Maybe I'll make learning that my New Years Resolution....or probably not.

    Back to Bishop and Knight v a Lone King.

    The often quoted example of this ending getting screwed up is:

    Robert Kempinski vs Vladimir Epishin, Germany 2001

    Black was awarded the Grandmaster title in 1990 and was one of Karpov seconds
    during the Kasparov-Karpov matches. He starts off by chasing the King to the
    wrong corner and struggles to dig him out of there.
    He misses wins and eventually runs out moves so stalemates.

  12. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
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    20 Dec '20 09:39
    @greenpawn34 said
    Hi MontyMoose,

    I have 668 KBN v K. RHP games The Bishop and Knight has won 404 times
    so 264 players have failed. One funny point is a few players (I counter 4)
    did it but a year or so later forgot how to do it and drew!

    Quite a few times players have headed for it. Gone into ending a Bishop up,
    swapped off everything and promoted to a Knight...then a few drew ...[text shortened]... 6+ 173. Ka8 Bc7 174. Ka7 Nd7 175. Ka8 Bd6 176. Ka7 Nb6 177. Ka6 Bb8 178. Ka5 Bc7 179. Ka6 Nc8 [/pgn]
    Hi GP,

    I've had K+N+B once as the attacker and once as the defender - I won as the attacker and lost as the defender. In the game fragment you posted from around move 14 the knight needs to be on b6 to drive black out of the corner. Epishin either didn't know that the king needs to be driven to a corner the same colour as the bishop or got confused about where the knight should be, he keeps trying to put it on the wrong side of his king - on d6 rather than b6. Back then they were probably playing without increments and in a time scramble it'd be confusing. It's worth practising this ending against an engine every now and again as there's a precise sequence that the defender cannot deviate from except at one point. One just has to know that one has to allow the lone king to leave the edge of the board for a move and that it can be reigned in immediately with the bishop.

    I'd learnt that by playing it out against endgame tablebases. In the game where I had it my opponent deliberately swapped down into that ending as a defence thinking that I wouldn't be able to do it, especially with less than five minutes on the clock.

    Having said that I've got a copy of Harry Golombek's "The Game of Chess" and he says the following:
    Cases 5 and 6 [K+B+N vs K and K+N+N+N vs K respectively] are so exceedingly rare in practice (in forty years experience of chess I have failed to observe a single example) that I have not thought them worth the space. [Meaning he doesn't show how to execute them.]

    The one I'd like to be able to do is K+N+N vs K+P, which is generally possible in under fifty moves if the pawn is blockaded in the defenders half of the board (except for the knight's files where it's possible in over 99% of cases), and sometimes possible otherwise.

    Regarding Chess New Year's resolutions:

    I'm going to work through Dvorestsky's endgame Manual again, this time more
    slowly and carefully and do the problems (I rushed through after getting it in August without looking at all the analysis) and read the corresponding chapters in Fundamental Chess Endings as well.

    Practice various endings against an engine - it's important to be able to do them under fairly intense time pressure.

    Get a book of Endgame studies to solve, or something like Nunn's 1001 checkmates. Basically I need to improve my calculation ability and studies are the way forward.

    Get my head around how to play Isolated Queen's pawn positions.

    Start playing the Semi-Slav, for the nice simple positions in the Botvinnik variation. Do a bit of revision on the Najdorf and dust it off as a main line defence, ditto the Spanish as white.
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