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  1. 28 Jan '13 13:20 / 1 edit
    This relates to Thread 150972

    In RJ’ game. (A good OTB swindle by the way RJ)
    After: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6


    The move 4...Nf6 was rejected out of hand with the comment.

    “black plays nf6 resulting in doubled pawns ? not sure about that mate”

    5.Nxf6+ gxf6


    How about a thank you mate for the ½ open g-file, the booster to e7-e5, giving Black
    the option of developing the Bishop on g7 or h6 and for swapping off a developed piece
    that has just made 3 of the opening 5 moves.

    RJ also stated that he thought 5…exf6 was better but 5…gxf6 was all ther rage in
    the late 70’s through to the mid 80’s for the dynamic reasons I stated above.

    In the thread on the Ponziani which descended into name calling.
    Somewhere in there you will find I listed the GM’s whose style indicated
    a pref for 3…Nf6 instead of 3…d5.

    After 5.Nxf6 gxf6


    We find some of the same GM’s happily taking the Black side playing 5…gxf6.

    Larsen, Hort, Tal, Bronstein, Miles (Miles beat Karpov as Black with it in 1983.)
    Short, Speelman, Timman…All were very happy to take the Black side with the…
    “Oh My God! he has doubled pawns.” position.

    Good players look for exceptions to break the golden rules.
    (that is why they are good players and do not dismiss any move at first glance based
    on superficial principles.)

    I don’t like to use GM games or names to make a point but here is a very good
    instructive game with this line.

    A. Mikhalchishin, - J. Speelman France 1979

  2. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    28 Jan '13 13:39 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    This relates to Thread 150972

    In RJ’ game. (A good OTB swindle by the way RJ)
    After: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6

    [fen]rnbqkb1r/pp2pppp/2p2n2/8/3PN3/8/PPP2PPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 5[/fen]
    The move 4...Nf6 was rejected out of hand with the comment.

    “black plays nf6 resulting in doubled pawns ? not sure about that mate”
    3.Rxb6+ is a draw. We have all seen it happen.} 41... Rc3 42. Rf4 Rxc4+ {White resigned.}[/pgn]
    I have never played the Caro Kann from either side (except as a "passing through" via the KIA), but I know about the Bronstein-Larsen variation for two reasons:

    The names "Bronstein" and "Larsen" are attached to it! If they both played it, it's got to be fun chess.

    EDIT: Nice post GP. Games like this expand a player's palate, and broadens their understanding of the game. Every day we sign on to the forum and learn something new is a good day.
  3. 28 Jan '13 14:01
    As a Caro Kann player of only a few years standing, I've been playing the 4. ... Nf6 5. Nxf6+ gxf6 line for ages in online blitz, trying to get a handle on the sort of positions which occur and what Black should be doing, but without much success. I've only tried 4. ... Nf6 once in a serious (OTB) game and although I intended to play 5. ... gxf6, in the end I chickened out and played the wimpier 5. ... exf6. I won the game, but wasn't really happy with my position out of the opening:
  4. 28 Jan '13 14:27
    Without knowing or checking I'd guess the gxf6 idea is under (at the moment)
    some theoretical cloud.
    Which is all the more reason to play it!

    I am not keen on giving GM games to show a line in a good or bad light
    because we are not GM's. Our games on the whole, as Fat Lady has just
    proved are decided by tactical oversights.

    Also that example went into an endgame where again at our level anything
    can happen. Opening and middle game advantages can disappear at the flick
    of a pawn.
    (See RJ's game in the original thread for a good example.)
  5. Standard member Grampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    28 Jan '13 14:43
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    This relates to Thread 150972

    In RJ’ game. (A good OTB swindle by the way RJ)
    After: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6

    [fen]rnbqkb1r/pp2pppp/2p2n2/8/3PN3/8/PPP2PPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 5[/fen]
    The move 4...Nf6 was rejected out of hand with the comment.

    “black plays nf6 resulting in doubled pawns ? not sure about that mate”
    ...[text shortened]... 3.Rxb6+ is a draw. We have all seen it happen.} 41... Rc3 42. Rf4 Rxc4+ {White resigned.}[/pgn]
    Thanks, gp.
  6. 28 Jan '13 17:31
    In my ancient club-praxis (during that time I switched from Naidorf variation), 90 percent of my oponents played 6. Nf3 and the rest of them 6. g3. Almost universal answer on all attemts of the White was 6. ... Bf5.
  7. 28 Jan '13 17:36
    I'm not too knowledgable about the gxf6 lines either. I've played it from both sides and had problems from both sides.

    Theory wise (or somewhat)

    Dynamics Of Chess Strategy by Jansa had a chapter or so that made black's life very rough in the variation. All I remember is that, it was a pretty convincing positional treatment that left black in bad shape.
  8. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    29 Jan '13 00:16 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    I'm not too knowledgable about the gxf6 lines either. I've played it from both sides and had problems from both sides.

    Theory wise (or somewhat)

    Dynamics Of Chess Strategy by Jansa had a chapter or so that made black's life very rough in the variation. All I remember is that, it was a pretty convincing positional treatment that left black in bad shape.
    I don't like 6.g3 because of the reply 6...Qd5 attacking the h1 rook. However, 6.Bf4 might be a good alternative to Nf3. I'm not sure, but the psitional treatment you were referring to may have began with 6.c3 followed by 7.Be3 making d4 a strong point.

    Now, I don't think my 6.Ne2 is the best continuation for white as greenpawn34 demonstrated in one of the games. However, it is okay following 6.Bc4 as shown in this trap variation below: