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  1. 07 Sep '13 14:37
    Are you allowed to consult opening books during correspondence games?
  2. Donation mwmiller
    RHP Member No.16
    07 Sep '13 14:47
    Originally posted by tcastella
    Are you allowed to consult opening books during correspondence games?
    Yes.

    Part 3. (b) of the Terms of Service. (TOS)

    3. YOUR REGISTRATION OBLIGATIONS
    In consideration of your use of the Service, you represent that you are of legal age to form a binding contract and are not a person barred from receiving services under the laws of the United States or other applicable jurisdiction. You also agree to :

    (b) While a game is in progress you may not refer to chess engines, chess computers or be assisted by a third party. Endgame tablebases may not be consulted during play but you may reference books, databases consisting of previously played games between human players, and other pre-existing research materials.
  3. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    07 Sep '13 16:31
    Originally posted by mwmiller
    Yes.

    Part 3. (b) of the Terms of Service. (TOS)

    3. YOUR REGISTRATION OBLIGATIONS
    In consideration of your use of the Service, you represent that you are of legal age to form a binding contract and are not a person barred from receiving services under the laws of the United States or other applicable jurisdiction. You also agree to :

    (b) While a ga ...[text shortened]... ing of previously played games between human players, and other pre-existing research materials.
    "Databases consisted of played games between human players". Is that implying already played computer games cannot be used for reference? It would not be the same thing as using an engine.
  4. Donation mwmiller
    RHP Member No.16
    07 Sep '13 17:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    "Databases consisted of played games between human players". Is that implying already played computer games cannot be used for reference? It would not be the same thing as using an engine.
    I'm not an expert on chess engines or the TOS but I think when it says "games between human players" that clearly explains the boundaries and would exclude any game that involved a computer software opponent.

    If I were shown two games and was told that in one of the games there was a nonhuman player, I doubt if I could even spot the nonhuman.

    I'm just pointing out that opening books are allowed in correspondence chess and it is addressed in the Terms of Service for this site.
  5. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    07 Sep '13 18:58
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    "Databases consisted of played games between human players". Is that implying already played computer games cannot be used for reference? It would not be the same thing as using an engine.
    Engine moves are engine moves and count as a match regardless of the point of origin of the move.
  6. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    07 Sep '13 22:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by mwmiller
    I'm not an expert on chess engines or the TOS but I think when it says "games between human players" that clearly explains the boundaries and would exclude any game that involved a computer software opponent.

    If I were shown two games and was told that in one of the games there was a nonhuman player, I doubt if I could even spot the nonhuman.

    I'm just ...[text shortened]... e allowed in correspondence chess and it is addressed in the Terms of Service for this site.
    In my mind, there is a big gray area here. If you know the moves were played by a computer, you should not use them.

    That said, the TOS say that using books is OK. I am pretty certain that every chess author in the last 10 years has used one or more engines to check their analysis, but since they rarely give the computer credit, it is hard to separate human moves from computer moves in modern opening books.

    For this reason, I don't put too much stock in online games. I use them to experiment and play social chess, but I am not going to get worked up about a game where I can't verify anything about the conditions of the game or my opponent. OTB chess is real, and everything else is just exercise and practice.

    EDIT: I should give GM Nigel Davies and GM Tiger Hillarp Person credit, as they are very good about pointing out where they used a computer, and also what they think about the direction of the analysis. It's enlightening to read them.
  7. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    07 Sep '13 23:10
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    "Databases consisted of played games between human players". Is that implying already played computer games cannot be used for reference? It would not be the same thing as using an engine.
    Yes, I believe that means just what it says, "games between human players". If a computer is involved, then that would not be "games between human players". So you would not be allowed to consult those games involving computers during a RHP game.

    The Instructor
  8. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    07 Sep '13 23:40
    Originally posted by ChessPraxis
    Engine moves are engine moves and count as a match regardless of the point of origin of the move.
    Is one allowed to consult past games against RJHinds?
  9. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    08 Sep '13 00:33
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Yes, I believe that means just what it says, "games between human players". If a computer is involved, then that would not be "games between human players". So you would not be allowed to consult those games involving computers during a RHP game.

    The Instructor
    Now who can argue with that? I think we're all indebted to RJHinds for clearly stating what needed to be said. I'm particularly glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age.
  10. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    08 Sep '13 00:34
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Is one allowed to consult past games against RJHinds?
    I wouldn't.
  11. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    08 Sep '13 03:45
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Is one allowed to consult past games against RJHinds?
    No that is illegal.

    The Instructor
  12. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    08 Sep '13 21:16
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    No that is illegal.

    The Instructor
    The Truth at last.