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Appolgies if this has been discussed before but I've seen people here say that they use opening books and databases during their games.
Is this moral and 'legal'? I would have thought that this would be seen as cheating seeing as the player is getting help whilst the game is active.
Any thoughts?
Originally posted by onebyoneSomething can only be cheating and illegal if it contravenes the rules. Use of books and databases during games does not contravene the rules of this site.
Appolgies if this has been discussed before but I've seen people here say that they use opening books and databases during their games.
Is this moral and 'legal'? I would have thought that this would be seen as cheating seeing as the player is getting help whilst the game is active.
Any thoughts?
If such activities did contavene the rules of this site, how do you propose that such activities could be detected?
Yes it's been done before. There are no prizes given here that I'm aware of. In my opinion that means that you can use those things because you are learning while you are playing. Now as far as engines you are learning somewhat but the computer is picking the move not suggesting better play through tactics or whatever. Endgame databases are banned because they are just engines for the later parts of the game.
In my opinion, this is 100% cheating on this site unless both players agree before the game begins that they will both be using external sources. If no such discussion occurs, neither player should be getting help. What is the point of playing against Fritz or Chessmaster? It is completely ridiculous if one player uses external sources and the other does not. By using hints from Chessmaster, I could beat a player with a rating of 2000+!
Originally posted by JakalNeither Fritz nor Chessmaster are book or database. Using such aids would be using a chess engine during play and that is most certainly against the rules.
In my opinion, this is 100% cheating on this site unless both players agree before the game begins that they will both be using external sources. If no such discussion occurs, neither player should be getting help. What is the point of playing against Fritz or Chessmaster? It is completely ridiculous if one player uses external sources and the other does not. By using hints from Chessmaster, I could beat a player with a rating of 2000+!
If you have any doubts about what is or is not allowed you should read the Terms of Service (bottom of every page), particularly No. 3.
Originally posted by deeploserIf both players agree to use external resources then there is no problem.
Engine use is cheating on this site. Using books on opening or databases are not cheating on this site.
If your opponent does not know that you are using books and databases, doesn't that constitute cheating? I've played 130 games on this site and have never used outside sources. Are you saying that I've lost some games because my opponents got help from professional resources? It has to be clarified from the beginning and both players have to agree. I personally want to study chess separately and implement what I've learned in actual games. This is how I feel I will improve my game.
- Joined
- 17 Aug 08
- Moves
- 13846
Originally posted by Kepler'Terms of Service'... Never thought to read that 😉
Neither Fritz nor Chessmaster are book or database. Using such aids would be using a chess engine during play and that is most certainly against the rules.
If you have any doubts about what is or is not allowed you should read the Terms of Service (bottom of every page), particularly No. 3.
Books and databases are valid... engines are not... clear as day.
Thanks.
Originally posted by JakalWhen you signed up for this site you had to agree with TOS (terms of service). In the terms of service it is clearly stated what is allowed and what is not.
If both players agree to use external resources then there is no problem.
If your opponent does not know that you are using books and databases, doesn't that constitute cheating? I've played 130 games on this site and have never used outside sources. Are you saying that I've lost some games because my opponents got help from professional resources? It has t ...[text shortened]... and implement what I've learned in actual games. This is how I feel I will improve my game.
Databases and opening books use are the integral part of a game called "correspodence chess" in the same way as dunking is aloweed in basketball ; those are game rules.
If you don't like it, then play real time chess where that is considering cheating.
Using chessmaster or fritz hints is engine using, which is strictly prohibited on this site. (and results in bans once in a while.)
Well that's your choice. I don't always use an opening database, in fact rarely but I do use one on occasion. I have a book by Bruce Pandolfini called The Winning Way. It hasn't proven to be the best book to catch people in mistakes but I have it to look at if I want.
On this site since it's legal to do this you'd be better off to assume your opponent is using these resources.
Just have a look at the TOS:
3. YOUR REGISTRATION OBLIGATIONS
(b) While a game is in progress you may not refer to chess engines, chess computers or be assisted by a third party. Endgame tablebases may not be consulted during play but you may reference books, databases consisting of previously played games between human players, and other pre-existing research materials.
http://www.redhotpawn.com/myhome/termsofservice.php.
As far as I know the biggest problem is that correspondence chess games can last for months or even years. If books and databases aren't allowed, you aren't allowed to study some opening you are playing in an ongoing game, or study some rook endgames while you have a rook ending in one of your games.
Originally posted by KeplerWait. Chessmaster does not have a database in it?
Neither Fritz nor Chessmaster are book or database. Using such aids would be using a chess engine during play and that is most certainly against the rules.
If you have any doubts about what is or is not allowed you should read the Terms of Service (bottom of every page), particularly No. 3.
Neither does Fritz?
Originally posted by CartersonThey may have a database but they don't come with one built in as far as I know. Generally one can use the interface to the engine to build a database. Or is it possible you mean the engine's opening book? Similar thing but not really the same.
Wait. Chessmaster does not have a database in it?
Neither does Fritz?
This is obviously a question of personal choice. If anyone plays against me, they can be certain they are playing only me..my tricks and blunders. good moves and bad..no books, no databases, no outside help of any kind. I would take little pleasure in winning a game knowing I had found the answer to the problems my opponent had set me from an outside source. I like to play all my games to OTB rules..but other people make other choices.