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  1. Standard member Woobie
    Nectar Detector
    20 Jan '07 14:01
    As recommended by posts here, I just bought a couple chess books to help improve my game.
    I purchased "1001 sacrifices and combnations" and "reasses your chess."

    The latter starts with two concepts that the author "begs" me to master. Opposition and outflanking. Both ideas are new to me. I am beginning to understand opposition. Outflanking on the other hand is proving more difficult for me to grasp, and the short section in the book dedicated to this concept doesn't help me all that much. I can follow the authors train of thought in a game he has set up with two kings on either end of the A file, but I cant really internalize what outflanking is.

    Can anyone help clarify? Or point me in the direction of a resource that would help?

    Thanks!!!


    Dan
  2. 20 Jan '07 15:39
    I use the old school concept of "out spanking."
  3. Standard member English Tal
    Phoneless
    20 Jan '07 15:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Woobie
    As recommended by posts here, I just bought a couple chess books to help improve my game.
    I purchased "1001 sacrifices and combnations" and "reasses your chess."

    The latter starts with two concepts that the author "begs" me to master. Opposition and outflanking. Both ideas are new to me. I am beginning to understand opposition. Outflanking on the o arify? Or point me in the direction of a resource that would help?

    Thanks!!!


    Dan
    You're probably worrying unnecessarily.

    The 'Opposition' knowledge is required chess, and important if you wish to be a serious chess player.... you understand that part, so ok. 'Outflanking' is the author's own emphasis on a chess style in general, I reckon. It is simply understanding basic endgame rules. He has to name it something. Set up an endgame, both sides equal... and create a game or two, set position, on this site... that way, you'll learn from experience and not yet another hack chess book.
    Send me a game if you wish.
  4. 20 Jan '07 17:06
    Originally posted by Woobie
    As recommended by posts here, I just bought a couple chess books to help improve my game.
    I purchased "1001 sacrifices and combnations" and "reasses your chess."

    The latter starts with two concepts that the author "begs" me to master. Opposition and outflanking. Both ideas are new to me. I am beginning to understand opposition. Outflanking on the o ...[text shortened]... arify? Or point me in the direction of a resource that would help?

    Thanks!!!


    Dan
    I need to master opposition. What annotation does the book use?
  5. Subscriber BigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    20 Jan '07 18:08
    Originally posted by Woobie
    As recommended by posts here, I just bought a couple chess books to help improve my game.
    I purchased "1001 sacrifices and combnations" and "reasses your chess."

    The latter starts with two concepts that the author "begs" me to master. Opposition and outflanking. Both ideas are new to me. I am beginning to understand opposition. Outflanking on the o ...[text shortened]... arify? Or point me in the direction of a resource that would help?

    Thanks!!!


    Dan
    If we start at the end of Silman's example:


    Black moves

    Black must either go right (Kh8) or left (Kf8), allowing White to reach his goal via Kf7 or Kh7. "Outflanking" is simply this "he goes right, I go left" idea (or vice versa).
  6. Standard member Woobie
    Nectar Detector
    20 Jan '07 18:40
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    If we start at the end of Silman's example:

    [fen]6k1/8/6K1/8/8/8/8/8[/fen]
    Black moves

    Black must either go right (Kh8) or left (Kf8), allowing White to reach his goal via Kf7 or Kh7. "Outflanking" is simply this "he goes right, I go left" idea (or vice versa).
    It seems to me that he used the same example you just did to explain "opposition" in the first chapter of the book. Are you saying that opposition and outflanking are part of the same idea?
  7. Standard member Woobie
    Nectar Detector
    20 Jan '07 18:41
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    If we start at the end of Silman's example:

    [fen]6k1/8/6K1/8/8/8/8/8[/fen]
    Black moves

    Black must either go right (Kh8) or left (Kf8), allowing White to reach his goal via Kf7 or Kh7. "Outflanking" is simply this "he goes right, I go left" idea (or vice versa).
    He also mentions that in order to successfully win that position you need to give up the opposition several times. So outflanking is also giving up the opposition...


    I am so confused...
  8. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    20 Jan '07 19:12
    Don't worry about the terminology that much, if you know what the author is getting at then don't worry. But outflanking is exactly what BigDogg said. Once you obtain the opposition, and your opponent picks a square, let's say in the given example he goes to f8, you go to h7 and control the g8 square. That's the whole idea here. Silman doesn't use a pawn in his example. But let's say you have a pawn on g5 in the example position posted by BiggDogg. The whole idea of the opposition and Outflanking in King Pawn endings is to push the opponents king away from the queening square. So in the example you have driven the king all the way to g8 and obtained the opposition, it's Black to move and let's say he goes to h8 this time. You go to f7, "outflanking" him, and now you control the queening square for your g-pawn and he's lost. You can simply push the pawn all the way to g8 and he can't do anything about it since you protect it from f7. That's all this is all about.
  9. Standard member Woobie
    Nectar Detector
    20 Jan '07 19:30 / 2 edits
    I wish I knew how you guys create those board examples... it would make ththese examples easier...

    In the outflanking chapter, Silman creates an example where there are only two kings on the board, white on a1 and Black on a8. He says the goal is to get white to f8, g8 or h8 in at most 17 moves. Obviously a straight shot across the board for white, (either diagonally, or kingside and then up), does not work, I assume because black can control the opposition). So Silman comes up with the position of whites king on a3 and blacks king on c8 and says, "By putting a file between Kings, white prevents black from taking direct opposition while simultaneously making forward progress. This process is called outflanking." I just dont understand this example, or see how this relates to what the above posters were trying to explain to me as outflanking.
  10. Standard member Woobie
    Nectar Detector
    20 Jan '07 19:32
    Id like to state that I do understand what Bigdog was saying, and if outflanking is simply that then I guess I get it. But I dont understand how that realtes to my example right above.
  11. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    20 Jan '07 20:24
    To be honest, I think Silman's example sucks to teach with. Because it's complicated for beginners and it doesn't actually represent any type of game situation.
  12. 20 Jan '07 20:33
    Originally posted by Woobie
    I wish I knew how you guys create those board examples... it would make ththese examples easier...

    In the outflanking chapter, Silman creates an example where there are only two kings on the board, white on a1 and Black on a8. He says the goal is to get white to f8, g8 or h8 in at most 17 moves. Obviously a straight shot across the board for white, (eith ...[text shortened]... or see how this relates to what the above posters were trying to explain to me as outflanking.
    The board examples are created by using fen. Look at the screen below post when you are replying or posting a message. Insert board from FEN. I made a small image to better help someone understand how to write it and have links to wikipedia which gives a tutorial in this thread: http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=58901
  13. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    21 Jan '07 02:36
    Outflanking as the aim of opposition is discussed in Thread 60372.