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  1. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    10 Jul '07 02:02 / 1 edit
    I'm currently reading Yassir Seirawan's Winning Chess Strategies, and I came to a position similar (though not exact) to the position below. In his book, he claims that white has three pawn islands, but I would have thought that white had four pawn islands. I realize that white's f-pawns are adjacent and even on the same file, but I thought that because they could not defend each other, they were two separate islands.



    Could someone clear this up?
  2. Standard member Phlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    10 Jul '07 02:08 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    I'm currently reading Yassir Seirawan's Winning Chess Strategies, and I came to a position similar (though not exact) to the position below. In his book, he claims that white has three pawn islands, but I would have thought that white had four pawn islands. I realize that white's f-pawns are adjacent and even on the same file, but I thought that ...[text shortened]... lands.

    [fen]r4b1r/ppp1kppp/8/8/8/5P2/PPP2P1P/R1B1K2R[/fen]

    Could someone clear this up?
    Hmmmm..... the 3 islands could be possibilites after capture.

    That pawn on f3 could end up on e or g making new islands with the f or h pawn?

    P-
  3. Standard member anthias
    ambitious player
    10 Jul '07 02:08 / 1 edit
    They are called islands because they have no link between each other, just like islands (that have no link to land whatsoever) .Doubled pawns are like a single island with a mountain on it. Consider it as a single pawn.
  4. Standard member Phlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    10 Jul '07 02:10
    Originally posted by anthias
    They are called islands because they have no link between each other, just like islands (that has no link to land whatsoever) .Doubled pawns are like a single island with a mountain on it. Consider it as a single pawn.
    Ah, I forgot a single pawn is an island. Well explained. Disregard my last post on this subject.

    P-
  5. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    10 Jul '07 02:11
    Originally posted by anthias
    They are called islands because they have no link between each other, just like islands (that has no link to land whatsoever) .Doubled pawns are like a single island with a mountain on it. Consider it as a single pawn.
    Alright, so even though they don't support one another, they are one island because they are adjacent on the same file. Thanks.
  6. Standard member Phlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    10 Jul '07 02:37
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Alright, so even though they don't support one another, they are one island because they are adjacent on the same file. Thanks.
    Perhaps you were thinking of chains?

    P-
  7. 20 Jul '07 17:21
    Originally posted by Phlabibit
    Ah, I forgot a single pawn is an island. Well explained. Disregard my last post on this subject.

    P-
    What are you talking about buddy? Where did you learn your chess? From the general forum?
  8. 20 Jul '07 17:56
    Yassir Seirawan feels that doubled pawns constitute one half a point each therefore the doubled pawn should viewed as only one pawn value: therefore there are 3 pawn islands.
  9. 20 Jul '07 19:08
    he feels that badly about doubled pawns? i like doubled pawns. means more open files!
  10. 20 Jul '07 21:29
    Originally posted by Stockton
    he feels that badly about doubled pawns? i like doubled pawns. means more open files!
    Yes your stats say it all.
  11. Standard member anthias
    ambitious player
    20 Jul '07 22:28
    Doubled pawns are an asset during the middlegame, they usually restrict enemy knights and come with the advantage of the two bishops. They are useless in an endgame, as they can not protect each other. The King has to protect them.
  12. 21 Jul '07 02:41
    Originally posted by kcaley
    Yes your stats say it all.
    hey man, that's just what a pretty good GM told me. he said "don't be afraid of doubled pawns. if you have doubled pawns, you have open files for your pieces."
  13. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    21 Jul '07 02:58
    Originally posted by anthias
    Doubled pawns are an asset during the middlegame, they usually restrict enemy knights and come with the advantage of the two bishops. They are useless in an endgame, as they can not protect each other. The King has to protect them.
    Agreed. It all depends on the situation.
  14. Standard member anthias
    ambitious player
    21 Jul '07 13:20


    In this position it makes perfect sense to play 6 Be3 as if black plays 6...Bxe3 7 fxe3 White has gained an open f file for free and his new e pawn denies the black Knight the d4 potential outpost square. Black is advised to play 6...Bb6, inviting white to play 7.Bxb6 axb6, as he will gain an open a file and develop his rook without even moving it.

    BTW Black does not have to play 6...Bb6, as as future Bxc5 dxc5 strengthens Blacks control over the d4 square and opens the d file for future central attacks.