26 Aug 08
1 edit
Originally posted by coquetteI suppose you meant that you can't promote to a king, but slipped in "queen" without thinking. You can, of course, promote to a queen - (if you think otherwise, I'd be very happy to play a game! 🙂
You can't promote to a Queen, and, oddly, you cannot promote to a pawn. Now, you might ask why anyone might choose to not promote, and that would be a reasonable question, but you can't.
26 Aug 08
Originally posted by coquetteIf you move the pawn to a promoting square and by doing that you give discovered checkmate, then the game would be over before you select a promotion piece (at least OTB, not sure about here on RHP).
You can't promote to a Queen, and, oddly, you cannot promote to a pawn. Now, you might ask why anyone might choose to not promote, and that would be a reasonable question, but you can't.
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26 Aug 08
Originally posted by Mephisto2Not officially, AFAICT. Rule 4.6.c states that the move is completed only when the new piece has been placed; and 5.1 states that checkmating is only valid after a legal move, not half-move.
If you move the pawn to a promoting square and by doing that you give discovered checkmate, then the game would be over before you select a promotion piece (at least OTB, not sure about here on RHP).
Looking this up, I noted a rule that's new to me: it is now forbidden for anybody to use a mobile phone in the playing venues of FIDE chess games. I applaud this rule 😏.
Richard
26 Aug 08
Originally posted by Shallow BlueForgive me my ignorance, but what is AFAICT?
Not officially, AFAICT. Rule 4.6.c states that the move is completed only when the new piece has been placed; and 5.1 states that checkmating is only valid after a legal move, not half-move.
Looking this up, I noted a rule that's new to me: it is now forbidden for anybody to use a mobile phone in the playing venues of FIDE chess games. I applaud this rule 😏.
Richardt
Here is what the FIDE laws of chess say about checkmate:
"Article 5: The completion of the game
5.1 The game is won by the player who has checkmated his opponent`s king. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing the checkmate position was a legal move."
Now, even touching the pawn would suffice in my opinion, provided that moving that pawn (with the intention of promoting it) is a legal move. The promotion itself does not have to be done since there is a legal move AND the fact of moving already checkmates, thereby iimmediately ending the game (in the case of discovered checkmate, of course). Nowhere it says that despite all this the move has to be fully completed. Anyway, this is just playing with words (as I was only responding to the initial posters' question).
On the mobile phone thing, I also applaude the rule. In Belgium, most (if not all) clubs have meanwhile adopted this rule even for non-FIDE games.
26 Aug 08
Originally posted by Mephisto2My guess is that AFAICT = As Far As I Can Tell.
Forgive me my ignorance, but what is AFAICT?
Here is what the FIDE laws of chess say about checkmate:
"Article 5: The completion of the game
5.1 The game is won by the player who has checkmated his opponent`s king. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing the checkmate position was a legal move."
Now, even touching the p ...[text shortened]... In Belgium, most (if not all) clubs have meanwhile adopted this rule even for non-FIDE games.
Well, I'll throw my two cents in on this one. After reading FIDE Articles 3.7.e, 4.6.c, and 5.1.a, it seems clear to me that the promoted pawn has to be removed from the board, and the player's hand has to place the new piece on the promotion square before the move is considered to be legal, and checkmate doesn't happen until the move is legal. So I side with Shallow Blue's interpretation of this issue.
26 Aug 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Mephisto2If my opponent moved his pawn from the 7th to the 8th rank, producing a checkmate, then I would protest. The move is not completed before he decided into what piece he would promote it to.
"Article 5: The completion of the game
5.1 The game is won by the player who has checkmated his opponent`s king. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing the checkmate position was a legal move."
Now, even touching the pawn would suffice in my opinion, provided that moving that pawn (with the intention of promoting it) is a le ...[text shortened]... his is just playing with words (as I was only responding to the initial posters' question).
Look at this diagram:
After the white moves the pawn to f8Q+ it is not a mate, but f8N+ certainly is.
So in this case the promotion to a certain piece is important. In any case it's not complete before he has decided the piece.
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26 Aug 08
Originally posted by Mephisto2As others said, AFAICT = as far as I can tell.
Forgive me my ignorance, but what is AFAICT?
Here is what the FIDE laws of chess say about checkmate:
"Article 5: The completion of the game
5.1 The game is won by the player who has checkmated his opponent`s king. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing the checkmate position was a legal move."
Now, even touching the p ...[text shortened]... eckmate, of course). Nowhere it says that despite all this the move has to be fully completed.
And no, it clearly says "the move... was a legal move", in other words, it has to be completed; and (this is why I mentioned 4.6c) a promoting move is not completed until the promoted piece has been replaced.
Richard
26 Aug 08
Originally posted by FabianFnasOf course, in this case it matters how the promotion is done. But I was referring to positions where it doesn't matter. For instance:
If my opponent moved his pawn from the 7th to the 8th rank, producing a checkmate, then I would protest. The move is not completed before he decided into what piece he would promote it to.
Look at this diagram:
[fen]6rr/R4P1k/1R6/8/8/8/8/K7[/fen]
After the white moves the pawn to f8Q+ it is not a mate, but f8N+ certainly is.
So in this case the ...[text shortened]... to a certain piece is important. In any case it's not complete before he has decided the piece.
My interpretation is that touching the pawn on b7 is enough to end the game, according to FIDE rules.
26 Aug 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Shallow Bluesee my example above. As soon as white touches the pawn, the pawn will disappear from b7 and the resulting position is checkmate, no matter what follows. I don't see the stipulation that the move must be completed (because there is no such stipulation), it is enough that the move will be legal and that the position is checkmate.
As others said, AFAICT = as far as I can tell.
And no, it clearly says "the move... was a legal move", in other words, it has to be completed; and (this is why I mentioned 4.6c) a promoting move is not completed until the promoted piece has been replaced.
Richard