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  1. 20 Apr '09 01:44
    This is a continuation of Thread 110796.

    Our 28. ... Nc3 was met by 29. Rd2.

    Here is the position now:

  2. 20 Apr '09 02:18
    It looks like it's time for Rb4 to me. At least that's the plan I signed up for. Anyone else with a different idea? Streetfighter? Tony? Haven't read much from you guys lately.
  3. Standard member ptobler
    Patzer
    20 Apr '09 02:52 / 6 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    It looks like it's time for Rb4 to me. At least that's the plan I signed up for. Anyone else with a different idea? Streetfighter? Tony? Haven't read much from you guys lately.
    Yes - I vote 29...Rb4 (with the threat of 30. Rb1 checkmate) 30. Nb3 Ne4+ 31. Bd4 (31. Rd4) Ne4+ 32. Bxg7 Nxb3+ 33. cxb3 Bc6 34. Bd4
  4. 20 Apr '09 05:06
    Figures he would play a move I didn't expect.

    So, 29...Rb4 30.Nb3 is forced and we have loads of discovered checks. 30...Ne4+ and I suppose two plausible responses

    (A)31.Bd4


    (B)31.Rd4


    (A) 31...Nxd2 32.Bxg7 Nxb3+ 33.axb3 Kxg7 34.Rxe2 looks like we're losing a pawn then he's losing h4. So, a rook ending with even pawns. Gotta be drawn, but I'm no expert.

    (B) 31...Nxf2 32.R8xd7 Bxd4+

    (B1) 33.Rxd4 Rxd4 34.Nxd4 I'm guessing this is drawn? His king is more active, but his pawns are worse.

    (B2) 33.Nxd4 Looks drawish.

    29...Rb4 30.Nb3 Nb5+ 31.Kb1 Nc3+ 32.Kc1 Nxa2+ 33.Kd1 and the fight continues.

    29...Rb4 30.Nb3 Ra4 threatens mate 31.Kb2 Rxa2+ looks good or knight discoveries again.

    Dunno, I'll pull out the board tomorrow. It's late and I'm tired. Rb4 shouldn't be worse than a draw though (I would hope so after claiming Nc3 was a draw).

    I'd look at 29...Ba4 though just in case.
  5. 20 Apr '09 07:10
    I'm going with Rb4
  6. 20 Apr '09 15:48 / 1 edit
    I'm looking over 29...Ba4 more.

    after 30.Kb2 e6 (for Nd5) say, I think there's plenty of game left.

    It's not really clear to me what's going on here, but one should appreciate the odd placement of white's king and white has plenty of opportunities to go wrong I think.

    Mmmm...but Rb4 is probably better. Still, why liquidate? We could continue to try to play a complicated game with this move.



    Thoughts?
  7. 20 Apr '09 16:01 / 1 edit
    The other fighting line other than 29...Ba4


    29...Rb4 30.Nb3 Nb5+ 31.Kb1 Nc3+ 32.Kc1 Nxa2+ 33.Kd1

    I like this, after 33...Ba4 or 33...Bf5. Check it out:




    Nc3+ will get our knight back into play.
  8. Standard member ptobler
    Patzer
    20 Apr '09 16:16
    Originally posted by ResigningSoon
    The other fighting line other than 29...Ba4


    29...Rb4 30.Nb3 Nb5+ 31.Kb1 Nc3+ 32.Kc1 Nxa2+ 33.Kd1

    I like this, after 33...Ba4 or 33...Bf5. Check it out:


    [fen]3R4/p3ppbk/6p1/5bPp/1r5P/1N3P2/n1PR1B2/3K4 w - - 0 34[/fen]

    Nc3+ will get our knight back into play.
    Yes - 30...Nb5+ may well be better than my move - have to think about this...
  9. 20 Apr '09 20:29
    And here is something new to think about 29.... Rb4 30.Nb3 Ra4!?
    Here withe has two moves Kb2 and Nc1. I think Nc1 is to passive, so 31.Kb2 Rxa2+ 32.Kc1 or 31... any good move with the N.

    Any thoughts about this ?
  10. Standard member ptobler
    Patzer
    21 Apr '09 10:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by DagamoStyle
    And here is something new to think about 29.... Rb4 30.Nb3 Ra4!?
    Here withe has two moves Kb2 and Nc1. I think Nc1 is to passive, so 31.Kb2 Rxa2+ 32.Kc1 or 31... any good move with the N.

    Any thoughts about this ?
    Sure looks good to me too - 32. Kc1 Bf5 is a thought
  11. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    21 Apr '09 17:49 / 1 edit
    The two moves I'd endorse would be:

    29...Rb4 30. Nb3 Ne4+ and now:

    31. Bd4? looks like it leads to a better rook ending for Black after 31...Nxb2 32. Bxg7 Nxb3+ 33. axb3 Kxg7 34. Rxd7 a5, when h4 hangs and the h-pawn gets rolling. Maybe White's losing here.

    31. Rd4! Nxf2 32. R8xd7 Bxd4+ 33. Nxd4 Nd1!? intending either ...Ne3-g2xh4, or ...Nc3 looks roughly equal.

    or

    29...Rb4 30. Nb3 Ra4!? as suggested already, looks okay also. 31. Nc1? Ne4+ is losing for White (since d4 isn't protected enough to throw a piece in the way, and d2 is hanging simultaneously), but 31. Kb2 Ne4+ leads to a very similar position as the above variations, but with White's king on b2. Maybe that's a reason to prefer slightly 30...Ne4+. I'd be hesistant to take on a2 with the rook instead. I'd just want to get all my material back and reach the drawn ending.

    I vote for 29...Rb4.
  12. 21 Apr '09 20:32
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    The two moves I'd endorse would be:

    [b]29...Rb4 30. Nb3 Ne4+
    and now:

    31. Bd4? looks like it leads to a better rook ending for Black after 31...Nxb2 32. Bxg7 Nxb3+ 33. axb3 Kxg7 34. Rxd7 a5, when h4 hangs and the h-pawn gets rolling. Maybe White's losing here.

    31. Rd4! Nxf2 32. R8xd7 Bxd4+ 33. Nxd4 Nd1!? intending either . ...[text shortened]... nt to get all my material back and reach the drawn ending.

    I vote for 29...Rb4.[/b]
    Have to agree with this. I can't find a forced win for us, but we have at least a draw with the possiblility of white going wrong (e.g.31. Bd4? looks like it leads to a better rook ending for Black after 31...Nxb2 32. Bxg7 Nxb3+ 33. axb3 Kxg7 34. Rxd7 a5, when h4 hangs and the h-pawn gets rolling. Maybe White's losing here." TONY - I'm pretty sure black is winning here.

    In this other line -31. Rd4! Nxf2 32. R8xd7 Bxd4+ 33. Nxd4 Nd1!? intending either ...Ne3-g2xh4, or ...Nc3 looks roughly equal." - TONY...
    ...we have to be careful of the rook ending this time after 34.Nc6!? It's not clear to me why white isn't better with his passed c-pawn, although I admit I haven't analysed it thoroughly.

    I think 29...Rb4 is definitely the way to begin though.
  13. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    22 Apr '09 00:17 / 1 edit
    Hmmm, yes, I guess we have to analyze this a little bit further. After:

    34. Nc6 Rb6 35. Rxd1 Rxc6 36. Rd7 Rc4 37. Rxa7 Rxh4 38. Rxe7 Kg7

    we've reached an ending where Black is a pawn down, but he's got play based on the fact that his h-pawn is definitely faster than White's a/c pawn. His king on g7 is slightly better than his counterpart on h1, and the f3-pawn is going to hang soon as well. Maybe now White continues with 39. Kb2, as he needs to put his king on b3 or b4 to get the a -pawn rolling, and now 39...Rf4 makes a lot of sense. After something like 40. Kb3 Rxf3+ 41. Kb4 h4, we have a fantastically tense and difficult ending. All the above moves were quite easy to find, and were obvious. The rest is too tough for my feeble mind. Suffice to say that both sides are gonna start running their pawns.

    At the very least it's gonna be interesting!
  14. 23 Apr '09 06:42
    I will check on this tomorrow.
  15. 24 Apr '09 23:02
    It looks like Rb4 is our move. I won't sent it for a day just to make sure everyone agrees with this. Last Chance For Comments ...