What are some good ways of playing for the win as black versus e4, excluding playing e5 followed by Nc6 if Nf3 (the open games) and the sicilian? I need some "surprise weapons" for blitz tournaments. I don't care about soundness or gambitness as long as they cannot be refuted OTB and don't have classic refutations that everyone knows, like the latvian and elephant gambits.

Originally posted by pwnguin
I don't care about soundness as long as they cannot be refuted

You missed the OTB part 🙂

Meaning that the refutation is hard to find under a tournament pressure situation and the average player is not likely to come across it (unlike the latvian where every line is a refutation 😛)

Originally posted by pwnguin
What are some good ways of playing for the win as black versus e4, excluding playing e5 followed by Nc6 if Nf3 (the open games) and the sicilian? I need some "surprise weapons" for blitz tournaments. I don't care about soundness or gambitness as long as they cannot be refuted OTB and don't have classic refutations that everyone knows, like the latvian and elephant gambits.

That's an interesting suggestion, could you recommend a few games for me to look at where white doesn't blunder but still loses convincingly?

Originally posted by pwnguin
That's an interesting suggestion, could you recommend a few games for me to look at where white doesn't blunder but still loses convincingly?

Many thanks. On first look it seems excellent.

Scandi, i think it's uncommon enough

Or, how about the Petrov?

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nf6

I know it's an e5 defense but they won't expect it and it's very solid, though it can be drawish so maybe not the best choice

The win percentages with the Alekhine do not look great for black, though I suppose that could be due to lack of knowledge with the variations and poor play more than anything. At chessgames.com it is a bit better, but what bothers me more is I am not seeing much open attacking play. Example games would be greatly appreciated. I am willing to sacrifice a certain amount of soundness for practical chances.

Originally posted by yofidawg
Scandi, i think it's uncommon enough

Or, how about the Petrov?

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nf6

I know it's an e5 defense but they won't expect it and it's very solid, though it can be drawish so maybe not the best choice

Originally posted by pwnguin
I don't care if I play e5, but I don't want to play the open games, which means playing nc6 against nf3.

But the petroff looks more like a drawing weapon then going for the win.

But the traxler requires my opponent to cooperate to an extent. Most people play the ruy instead of Bc4 and a lot aren't ballsy enough to move the knight to g5.

Originally posted by pwnguin
But the traxler requires my opponent to cooperate to an extent. Most people play the ruy instead of Bc4 and a lot aren't ballsy enough to move the knight to g5.

From what I've heard, Weyerstrass plays the Alekhine occasionally. I wish they would update the games explorer, but this is one in which he played. White blundered, but only in the endgame; since you're focusing on the opening, take a look. I'll look for more.

Game 1076232

Originally posted by ih8sens
then after he commits to the ruy play f5 and you have another tactical explosion.