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  1. 13 Jul '07 21:57
    What are some good ways of playing for the win as black versus e4, excluding playing e5 followed by Nc6 if Nf3 (the open games) and the sicilian? I need some "surprise weapons" for blitz tournaments. I don't care about soundness or gambitness as long as they cannot be refuted OTB and don't have classic refutations that everyone knows, like the latvian and elephant gambits.
  2. Standard member Ian709
    In the learning
    13 Jul '07 22:05
    Originally posted by pwnguin
    I don't care about soundness as long as they cannot be refuted
    ?
  3. 13 Jul '07 22:07 / 1 edit
    You missed the OTB part

    Meaning that the refutation is hard to find under a tournament pressure situation and the average player is not likely to come across it (unlike the latvian where every line is a refutation )
  4. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    13 Jul '07 22:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by pwnguin
    What are some good ways of playing for the win as black versus e4, excluding playing e5 followed by Nc6 if Nf3 (the open games) and the sicilian? I need some "surprise weapons" for blitz tournaments. I don't care about soundness or gambitness as long as they cannot be refuted OTB and don't have classic refutations that everyone knows, like the latvian and elephant gambits.
    Why not try the Alekhine Defense?
  5. 13 Jul '07 22:22
    That's an interesting suggestion, could you recommend a few games for me to look at where white doesn't blunder but still loses convincingly?
  6. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    13 Jul '07 22:26
    Originally posted by pwnguin
    That's an interesting suggestion, could you recommend a few games for me to look at where white doesn't blunder but still loses convincingly?
    I've never played it before, but here's the site to the RHP GM Alekhine Defense database.

    http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com/gamesexplorer/index.php?movelist=e2e4g8f6&flip=0&co=-&u=-1&c=GM

    If I find a specific game, I'll post it, too.
  7. 13 Jul '07 22:27
    Many thanks. On first look it seems excellent.
  8. 13 Jul '07 22:28
    Scandi, i think it's uncommon enough

    Or, how about the Petrov?

    1. e4 e5
    2. Nf3 Nf6

    I know it's an e5 defense but they won't expect it and it's very solid, though it can be drawish so maybe not the best choice
  9. 13 Jul '07 22:33
    The win percentages with the Alekhine do not look great for black, though I suppose that could be due to lack of knowledge with the variations and poor play more than anything. At chessgames.com it is a bit better, but what bothers me more is I am not seeing much open attacking play. Example games would be greatly appreciated. I am willing to sacrifice a certain amount of soundness for practical chances.
  10. 13 Jul '07 22:38
    Originally posted by yofidawg
    Scandi, i think it's uncommon enough

    Or, how about the Petrov?

    1. e4 e5
    2. Nf3 Nf6

    I know it's an e5 defense but they won't expect it and it's very solid, though it can be drawish so maybe not the best choice
    I don't care if I play e5, but I don't want to play the open games, which means playing nc6 against nf3.

    But the petroff looks more like a drawing weapon then going for the win.
  11. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    13 Jul '07 22:43 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by pwnguin
    I don't care if I play e5, but I don't want to play the open games, which means playing nc6 against nf3.

    But the petroff looks more like a drawing weapon then going for the win.
    the traxler is an 'open' (e4, e5, then the knights... etc.) game... and black sure as heck better be going for the win in that opening or good luck .

    In case you're not sure what opening I'm talking about... I present... the most overposted game in these forums.

    Game 3533228

    edit - sorry, cross posting with u.
  12. 13 Jul '07 22:45
    But the traxler requires my opponent to cooperate to an extent. Most people play the ruy instead of Bc4 and a lot aren't ballsy enough to move the knight to g5.
  13. Standard member bannedplayer306509
    Best Loser
    13 Jul '07 22:47
    Originally posted by pwnguin
    But the traxler requires my opponent to cooperate to an extent. Most people play the ruy instead of Bc4 and a lot aren't ballsy enough to move the knight to g5.
    then after he commits to the ruy play f5 and you have another tactical explosion.
  14. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    13 Jul '07 22:52
    From what I've heard, Weyerstrass plays the Alekhine occasionally. I wish they would update the games explorer, but this is one in which he played. White blundered, but only in the endgame; since you're focusing on the opening, take a look. I'll look for more.

    Game 1076232
  15. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    13 Jul '07 22:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ih8sens
    then after he commits to the ruy play f5 and you have another tactical explosion.
    This is very true.

    Game 1853802

    Thread 71517