Playing for a win versus e4

Originally posted by wittywonka
From what I've heard, Weyerstrass plays the Alekhine occasionally. I wish they would update the games explorer, but this is one in which he played. White blundered, but only in the endgame; since you're focusing on the opening, take a look. I'll look for more.

Game 1076232

White was slaughtered right from the start in this game. After 10.Bxc6? White never had a chance.

I once watched GM Neil McDonald lose in about twelve moves when he played Alekhine's Defence and I've never trusted it since. I can't find the game online and I suspect Neil has destroyed all evidence that it was ever played. I do wonder how McDonald ever became a Grandmaster, as I think he is and was even at his peak much weaker than many British International Masters.

But the reason I want recommendations other than that is that is why I am already planning to play. My main repertoire is already ...e5, and I want surprises. The Wilkes-Barre is indeed spicy, but I will have to invest more time than I want to perfect it for OTB play. The classical is just fine for me now.

Against the Ruy I was planning on buying a book on the open defense instead of the closed one I usually use (Keres Variation). But no one gets to the end of the closed so far and I have nice games when they deviate. The Schliemann is nice and I was planning on getting something on it. Are there any good books or CDs? I must say the CDs (chessbase I think), from what I heard and saw from a guy at a tournament (who turned me on to the budapest) are excellent and highly recommendable. Though I'm pretty sure they require fritz to work, but the annotations and lesson material seemed very complete. There were literally thousands of games, pretty much every major game in the variation ever recorded.

The GM games I see of the alekhine do not impress me. And the win percentage is not good. Any more recommendations?

How is the pirc defense? Can you show me any attacking games in it?

Caro-kann is what i play but draws can happen sometimes

Nimzovich defense?
1.e4 Nc3

Then usually 2.d4 d5, and if white plays 3. exd5?! then ...Qxd5 and black is better. The defense is VERY rare but seems sound enough.

The main lines unfortunately aren't amazing for black...take a look, see if you like, it could be a good secret weapon.

Originally posted by pwnguin
How is the pirc defense? Can you show me any attacking games in it?

Pirc bores me to death. When you're looking for a good surprise weapon in OTB you want an opening where the 'natural' moves aren't the right ones, thereby giving you an advantage if white doesn't know the book. The natural moves in the pirc are the right ones (for me at least). Something like grob's gambit or the traxler (as I already mentioned) are great weapons in that regard.

Sadly it seems the only spicy defenses to e4 are e5, sicilian, and scandi 🙁

I just need one more good one. It's too predictable. Scandi gambit lines are really the only surprise weapons; in the sicilian and open games white takes the game to you with his variety of gambits and ways to wiggle out of the open sicilian; I want to take the game to him 🙁

Now with d4, there's the Ablin, Cambridge Springs, Budpapest, Benoni, Benko and they are all spicy fun, and white's deviations suck much more.

Originally posted by pwnguin
But the reason I want recommendations other than that is that is why I am already planning to play. My main repertoire is already ...e5, and I want surprises. The Wilkes-Barre is indeed spicy, but I will have to invest more time than I want to perfect it for OTB play. The classical is just fine for me now.

Against the Ruy I was planning on buying a book o ny more recommendations?

How is the pirc defense? Can you show me any attacking games in it?

I'm not sure what else to reccommend; I know your dilemna all too well. I have grown tired of 1. ... e5 in response to 1. e4, mainly because there are so many games that result from it (King's Gambit, Four Knights Game, Italian Game, Ruy Lopez, etc.), but I'm having trouble finding a semi-open defense for black that I'm comfortable with. I tried the Sicilian for a good while, and it's probably one of my favorites, but there can be so many complications that can go way over my head 😛. I tried the Caro-Kann, but I absolutely hated it; it just didn't work for me. I tried (am still in the process of trying) the French, but I'm not having all that much luck with it. Besides that, I don't know what other (semi-open) defenses there are, sound or unsound. Especially in CC, I don't feel like trying the Scandinavian Defense or the Alekhine Defense. I'm still considering trying Owen's Defense (1. e4 b6), which you might look into, but I'm pretty sure white would have good chances against it.

As for now, I'm still indecisive.

Edit: I also looked up 1. e4 g6 (Robatsch Defense), in addition to 1. e4 b6 (Owen's Defense).

The winawer french seems aggressive, but it does not score well at the world championship level. Still, it may be a good practical weapon. I will look into it.

Originally posted by pwnguin
What are some good ways of playing for the win as black versus e4, excluding playing e5 followed by Nc6 if Nf3 (the open games) and the sicilian? I need some "surprise weapons" for blitz tournaments. I don't care about soundness or gambitness as long as they cannot be refuted OTB and don't have classic refutations that everyone knows, like the latvian and elephant gambits.

"everyone knows the Latvian"....you're in some stellar company. The Latvian Gambit has newsletters , clubs, and Latvian tournaments dedicated to it.

It hasn't been figured out yet.

Originally posted by pwnguin
The winawer french seems aggressive, but it does not score well at the world championship level. Still, it may be a good practical weapon. I will look into it.

You're better off just looking for openings that suit your style, rather than saying certain openings have refutations at move 3 or don't score well against GM's or whatever.

For instance, not many GM's play the Scandinavian but if you take time to study it & understand it rather than knocking-in moves from a database you will get good results against similarly rated players.

There's no short-cut around learning tactics though. I made the mistake of trying to learn opening theory too early & all that happens is you get stuffed in the middlegame when your opponent goes out of book & pulls the rug from under you!
With a sound basic tactical knowledge you can play the riskiest opening you want (such as the Latvian) & still regularly win & have a lot of fun in the process.

Sam, there's a gazillion refutations to latvian.

See the "list of ways to score a huge plus" in this forum post:
http://www.chesspublishing.com/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1138114865/1#1

If your opponent knows the theory, and anyone who's played against the lat before has probably booked up on it, then white gets all the fun.

Originally posted by pwnguin
Sam, there's a gazillion refutations to latvian.

See the "list of ways to score a huge plus" in this forum post:
http://www.chesspublishing.com/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1138114865/1#1

If your opponent knows the theory, and anyone who's played against the lat before has probably booked up on it, then white gets all the fun.

Show the particular line in the Latvian that is refuted & let Korch refute the refutation😛

There's a complete guide to beating it at:

http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/040410_latvian_gambit.html

I'm sure with subpart moves by white after that and Korch playing black, Korch would win, but why bring a knife to a gun fight?

Originally posted by pwnguin
There's a complete guide to beating it at:

http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/040410_latvian_gambit.html

I'm sure with subpart moves by white after that and Korch playing black, Korch would win, but why bring a knife to a gun fight?

Have read this some time ago and can say that some of these analysis are far from perfect. People who is playing in Latvian gambit thematic tournaments may try them against me.

Originally posted by pwnguin
There's a complete guide to beating it at:

http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/040410_latvian_gambit.html

I'm sure with subpart moves by white after that and Korch playing black, Korch would win, but why bring a knife to a gun fight?

From silman's write up on the Latvian:
"Nevertheless, it is tricky, and offers Black good practical chances against an unprepared opponent. Though various “refutations” have appeared, fans of the gambit always find ways to keep Black alive (or so they claim), until gambit debunkers come up with new ways to kill it. Then Latvian aficionados fix it again, the debunkers kill it, and…well, it's a never-ending cycle."

Doesn't sound like a complete guide to beating it.

Well, I have Kosten's "The Latvian Gambit Lives", and in almost every line with best play by both sides black comes out badly.

For example Korch, after 2...f4 3 Nxe5 what do you play? Qf6?