Playing on a cluttered board

vivify

Only Chess

13 Oct '12 00:26

vivify
rain
Joined
08 Mar '11
Moves
12351
13 Oct '12 00:261 edit
I'm not yet at the 20-game mark, but I've already learned something: I SUCK at games where the board is cluttered. I'm much better when the board is open, and I have room to be creative. This is a recent game I lost, where the board looked like this at one point:

Any advise on the best way to play when the board is like this? And what's the best way to prevent this type of position?
SwissGambit
Caninus Interruptus
2014.05.01
Joined
11 Apr '07
Moves
92274
13 Oct '12 02:48
Originally posted by vivify
I'm not yet at the 20-game mark, but I've already learned something: I SUCK at games where the board is cluttered. I'm much better when the board is open, and I have room to be creative. This is a recent game I lost, where the board looked like this at one point:

[fen]r1bqk2r/4ppb1/p2p1np1/1ppPn3/P3PN2/1PNB1P1p/2PBQ1PP/R4RK1[/fen]

Any advise on the be ...[text shortened]... play when the board is like this? And what's the best way to prevent this type of position?
Were you playing white or black?
vivify
rain
Joined
08 Mar '11
Moves
12351
13 Oct '12 02:52
White.
RJHinds
The Near Genius
Fort Gordon
Joined
24 Jan '11
Moves
13644
13 Oct '12 03:16
Originally posted by vivify
White.
My first thought is to open thinks up starting with axb5, However I haven't tried to analyze it, in case Black replies NxB or some other possible move.
greenpawn34
e4
Joined
06 May '08
Moves
42492
13 Oct '12 03:281 edit
RJHinds
The Near Genius
Fort Gordon
Joined
24 Jan '11
Moves
13644
13 Oct '12 03:283 edits
After looking at it for a couple minutes I see a fork attack with your knight on his queen and bishop with Ne6. That must be the best move. This keeps the axb5 move in reserve.
vivify
rain
Joined
08 Mar '11
Moves
12351
13 Oct '12 04:351 edit
Here's the entire game, if it makes it easier to give advise.

EVENT Open invite
SITE http://www.redhotpawn.com
DATE 2012.10.07
ROUND ?
WHITE vivify
BLACK Thorongil
RESULT 0-1
WHITEELO 1413
BLACKELO 1568
Invert Board PGN Headers
[Event "Open invite"]
[Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
[Date "2012.10.07"]
[EndDate "2012.10.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "vivify"]
[Black "Thorongil"]
[WhiteRating "1413"]
[BlackRating "1568"]
[WhiteElo "1413"]
[BlackElo "1568"]
[Result "0-1"]
[GameId "9574892"]

1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bf8g7 3. Nb1c3 c5 4. d5 d6 5. Bc1d2 Nb8d7 6. Ng1h3 a6 7. Bf1d3 Nd7e5 8. Nh3f4 Ng8f6 9. f3 b5 10. O-O h5 11. b3 h4 12. Qd1e2 h3 13. a4 Ne5xd3 14. cxd3 hxg2 15. Nf4xg2 b4 16. Nc3a2 Bc8h3 17. Rf1c1 Nf6h5 18. d4 Bg7xd4 19. Bd2e3 Bd4xa1 20. Rc1xa1 Rh8g8 21. Ng2f4 Nh5xf4 22. Be3xf4 g5 23. Bf4g3 f6 24. Bg3e1 g4 25. f4 g3 26. Be1xg3 Ke8d7 27. e5 f5 28. Na2xb4 cxb4 29. Ra1c1 Qd8b6 30. Kg1h1 Ra8c8 31. e6 Kd7d8 32. Rc1g1 Rc8c3 33. Qe2h5 Bh3g4 34. Qh5f7 Bg4f3 0-1
vivify
rain
Joined
08 Mar '11
Moves
12351
13 Oct '12 04:513 edits
Originally posted by RJHinds
My first thought is to open thinks up starting with axb5, However I haven't tried to analyze it, in case Black replies NxB or some other possible move.
Thanks, but I wasn't necessarily asking for advise on this specific game, though it's welcomed. I meant advise in general, about playing on a board that's this cluttered.
Marinkatomb
wotagr8game
tbc
Joined
18 Feb '04
Moves
61941
13 Oct '12 05:008 edits
Originally posted by vivify
Here's the entire game, if it makes it easier to give advise.

[pgn][Event "Open invite"]
[Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
[Date "2012.10.07"]
[EndDate "2012.10.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "vivify"]
[Black "Thorongil"]
[WhiteRating "1413"]
[BlackRating "1568"]
[WhiteElo "1413"]
[BlackElo "1568"]
[Result "0-1"]
[GameId "9574892"]

1. e4 g6 2. d ...[text shortened]... 6 Kd7d8 32. Rc1g1 Rc8c3 33. Qe2h5 Bh3g4 34. Qh5f7 Bg4f3 0-1

[/pgn]
Ok i'll have a crack, my comments shouldn't be taken as Gospel, i'm not strong enough for that but i can add a few ideas..

EVENT Open invite
SITE http://www.redhotpawn.com
DATE 2012.10.07
ROUND ?
WHITE vivify
BLACK Thorongil
RESULT 0-1
WHITEELO 1413
BLACKELO 1568
Invert Board PGN Headers Comments
[Event "Open invite"]
[Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
[Date "2012.10.07"]
[EndDate "2012.10.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "vivify"]
[Black "Thorongil"]
[WhiteRating "1413"]
[BlackRating "1568"]
[WhiteElo "1413"]
[BlackElo "1568"]
[Result "0-1"]
[GameId "9574892"]

1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bf8g7 3. Nb1c3 c5 4. d5 { defending the pawn with Nf3 looks better to me. If 4..cxd4 5.Nxd4 you achieve the open position you said you prefer. Open lines for both bishops, knight in the centre. Also, should black play 4..Nc6 instead of cxd4, then 5.d5 comes with a tempo, as black has to move the knight. } d6 5. Bc1d2 Nb8d7 6. Ng1h3 { I see what you're trying here, you want the knight on f4. However, it isn't very secure there, and by neglecting to play Nf3 instead, you allow black to get his knight to e5. This caused you problems in the game. It could have been worth considering playing f4 here, followed by Nf3. You would have controlled the centre nicely with a pawn. Might not be the 'best' move, but worth considering.. } a6 7. Bf1d3 { Bd3 allows black to occupy e5 with his knight and have a target should it be driven away. After Be2, if black plays ..Ne5 then you can play f4, driving it back with tempo. I'd have preferred this move as it indirectly prevents the knight from advancing. } Nd7e5 8. Nh3f4 Ng8f6 9. f3 { a4 here would prevent blacks expansion on the Queenside } b5 10. O-O h5 11. b3 { This is just a bad move, the black bishop on g7 is eye balling your rook on a1. Tactically your just putting a massive weakness into your position for no reason. Whenever you make a pawn move, look at what the pawn was doing bfore you move it. In this case it was, defending your knight (or more importantly defending c3 and a3) Black has advanced his b-pawn and is going to drive your knight away from c3, which will leave the a1-h8 diagonal dangerously weak. Leaving the pawn on b2 keeps a semblance of control on your Queenside.} h4 12. Qd1e2 { Black is going to play b4 sooner or later, given this fact, it might have been prudent to move the knight first. For example, lets just say you play Ne2 and black responds ..b4, you're not losing a tempo and can immediately respond with a3. By allowing b3 with the knight still on c3, you have to move, which lets black continue moving freely on the Queenside..} h3 13. a4 { The a1 rook really needs to move! Anywhere is good, keeping free squares on the first rank for the Nc3 to retreat to..}Ne5xd3 14. cxd3 hxg2 15. Nf4xg2 b4 16. Nc3a2 Bc8h3 { A blunder! Black should have played ..Bxa1, you should play Rad1 here (keeping c1 free for the knight). It supports a future advance of the d-pawn after Be3. Not Rfc1? which should be obvious in hindsight.. I think the game is lost from here so further analysis doesn't really contribute much, just fire fights. But you had opportunities to get a better position. Blacks h-pawn advance to h3 looks pretty slow to me, There are probably chances to improve your position while this is going on but that sort of analysis would take too long...} 17. Rf1c1 Nf6h5 18. d4 Bg7xd4 19. Bd2e3 Bd4xa1 20. Rc1xa1 Rh8g8 21. Ng2f4 Nh5xf4 22. Be3xf4 g5 23. Bf4g3 f6 24. Bg3e1 g4 25. f4 g3 26. Be1xg3 Ke8d7 27. e5 f5 28. Na2xb4 { Why? You could make life very difficult here. e6+ ..K-any, bring the rook to the centre, knight via c1 to the centre. Black doesn't have any easy ways to invade your position. The rooks need open lines to come round to the attack, the pawn structure as it stands makes that very difficult. Black should still win, but it's far from easy! } cxb4 29. Ra1c1 Qd8b6 30. Kg1h1 Ra8c8 31. e6 Kd7d8 32. Rc1g1 Rc8c3 33. Qe2h5 Bh3g4 34. Qh5f7 Bg4f3 0-1
vivify
rain
Joined
08 Mar '11
Moves
12351
13 Oct '12 05:24
Marinkatomb, you're absolutely right about the center; I should've had that covered, which would've stopped Black's knight from advancing. Honestly, that's basic chess: protect the center. I failed at it, and I paid for it. But even though that should be obvious, I failed to see it. Thanks so much for pointing it out.

I'm going to go through your notes a few times, so I can thoroughly process all your advise.
Marinkatomb
wotagr8game
tbc
Joined
18 Feb '04
Moves
61941
13 Oct '12 05:34
Originally posted by vivify
Marinkatomb, you're absolutely right about the center; I should've had that covered, which would've stopped Black's knight from advancing. Honestly, that's basic chess: protect the center. I failed at it, and I paid for it. But even though that should be obvious, I failed to see it. Thanks so much for pointing it out.

I'm going to go through your notes a few times, so I can thoroughly process all your advise.
No problem, my pleasure. I added another note at the end, you could have made life very difficult, i think i could have defended the ending from the last note. Even though black has the exchange, he can't attack the base of any of the white pawn chains, which makes the rooks somewhat impotent..
RJHinds
The Near Genius
Fort Gordon
Joined
24 Jan '11
Moves
13644
13 Oct '12 11:24
Originally posted by vivify
Thanks, but I wasn't necessarily asking for advise on this specific game, though it's welcomed. I meant advise in general, about playing on a board that's this cluttered.
I thought it was your move as white in the diagram. So my advice on this game isn't any good anyway.
SwissGambit
Caninus Interruptus
2014.05.01
Joined
11 Apr '07
Moves
92274
13 Oct '12 14:411 edit
Originally posted by vivify
I'm not yet at the 20-game mark, but I've already learned something: I SUCK at games where the board is cluttered. I'm much better when the board is open, and I have room to be creative. This is a recent game I lost, where the board looked like this at one point:

[fen]r1bqk2r/4ppb1/p2p1np1/1ppPn3/P3PN2/1PNB1P1p/2PBQ1PP/R4RK1[/fen]

Any advise on the be ...[text shortened]... play when the board is like this? And what's the best way to prevent this type of position?

Basically, you want the fight to take place in the sector of the board where you are stronger, and shut down play in weaker sectors. g3 comes to mind to prevent opening of the h-file for black's Rook. Once that's done, play in the center, where you have more space. His N on e5 is centrally posted and should probably be driven away with f4 at some point. After that, you would decide how to use your central advantage. Do you push the pawns further forward and open the center? Maybe so, if black doesn't castle. Or perhaps you hold the pawns where they are, restricting black's movements while you find better squares for your pieces.

I don't think you should avoid positions like this as white because it looks like white is better here. I always like a space advantage in the center myself, especially when the pawns aren't locked. Freedom of movement keeps the opponent worried about well-timed pawn advances.

Edit: I see that in the game, you played a4 when you probably should have played g3 to keep your king position closed. a4 is a good idea; just need to play g3 first.
vivify
rain
Joined
08 Mar '11
Moves
12351
13 Oct '12 18:16
Originally posted by SwissGambit
[fen]r1bqk2r/4ppb1/p2p1np1/1ppPn3/P3PN2/1PNB1P1p/2PBQ1PP/R4RK1[/fen]

Basically, you want the fight to take place in the sector of the board where you are stronger, and shut down play in weaker sectors. g3 comes to mind to prevent opening of the h-file for black's Rook. Once that's done, play in the center, where you have more space. His N on e5 is cen ...[text shortened]... layed g3 to keep your king position closed. a4 is a good idea; just need to play g3 first.
Very helpful advise. Thanks.
queenabber
Joined
22 Oct '10
Moves
1975
13 Oct '12 21:18
Originally posted by Marinkatomb
Ok i'll have a crack, my comments shouldn't be taken as Gospel, i'm not strong enough for that but i can add a few ideas..

[pgn][Event "Open invite"]
[Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
[Date "2012.10.07"]
[EndDate "2012.10.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "vivify"]
[Black "Thorongil"]
[WhiteRating "1413"]
[BlackRating "1568"]
[WhiteElo "1413"]
[Bla ...[text shortened]... Rc1g1 Rc8c3 33. Qe2h5 Bh3g4 34. Qh5f7 Bg4f3 0-1

[/pgn]
Just a few thoughts. Hope they help

4. d5 I like this move: the most principled move. 4.Nf3 is possible but after 4...cd 5.Nd4 a very dangerous hyper-dragon is on the board; very difficult to play.

7 in positions after black plays a6, it is normally worth spending a move on a4 to prevent b5 from black. In positions with white pawns on d5&e4 against c5&d6 black is quite harmonious apart from one factor, he only has the d7 square for both his queenside minor pieces so white needs to concentrate on keeping his space advantage. (because of this black sometimes plays Na6 to Nc7 before playing a6, leaving d7 free for the bishop

I think after Nh3, it was better to play Be2 as opposed to Bd3, to keep an eye on the g4 square, with maybe a later f4 and Bf3

I like blacks h5, h4, h3 plan
White certainly can not allow hg, so measures must be taken to prevent this.

After hg in the game, white is awful/lost

hope this helps: IMPORTANT, REMEMBER ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF A4 TO PREVENT B5

EVENT	Open invite
SITE	http://www.redhotpawn.com
DATE	2012.10.07
ROUND	?
WHITE	vivify
BLACK	Thorongil
RESULT	0-1
WHITEELO	1413
BLACKELO	1568

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Playing on a cluttered board