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  1. 25 Oct '09 11:28 / 2 edits
    Hi All,

    I've starting trying to play some higher grade opponents, and was shocked how easily I was beaten (and how my action was shut down) in this game.

    I have my own ideas on what went wrong, but I would welcome critique from anyone one else who would like to give it. I played white.




    Thanks for reading!
  2. 25 Oct '09 13:55 / 1 edit
    You seem to be playing the opening you want to play and ignoring what your opponent plays.
    Interesting how your opponent set about exploiting the weaknesses.

    I hope to get a bit more time to look at it later and give some more specific comments.

    When they played the knight to h5 I think you needed to do something to prevent the exchange
    which not only gave them a bishop for a knight but also doubled your pawns. OK it would have been better to not get in this situation in the first place but ignoring it was fatal.

    Maybe you might have played the bishop to g5...and if he'd chased you back with pawn moves at least he would have weakened his pawns in front of his king.
  3. 25 Oct '09 15:18
    Moahout is right.
    You shoud have stopped developing for a moment and dealt with
    the threat to the Bishop. Allowing it to be exchanged on f4 pulled the e3
    pawn onto f4 and weakened your d-pawn.

    Black cashed in on this weak square.

    Mahout's Bg5 is a good alternative.
    Pulling the Bishop back to g3 is also an idea.
    d4 is still solid and if Black chops the Bishop you have an open h-file
    to drum up chances v the Black King.



    Having said that and looking at the postion from a player who plays the Black
    side of this opening I know Black does not have much to fear.

    I Liked Black's play.
    In this postion he could has nicked the d-pawn. (...Bxd4)



    But Black played 9...Nc6 instead - getting a piece to d4 was more important than
    the pawn. And if you saved the pawn with 10.d5 then Black uses that pawn
    to play a timed e6/c6 and opens up the game.
  4. 25 Oct '09 16:03
    My brief annotations, in addition to what others have mentioned above.

    1. d4 g6 2. c4 Bf8g7 3. Ng1f3 d6 4. Bc1f4?! (Playable but not the most flexible, on f4 the B is vulnerable to tactics ideas like Nh5xf4 or Nc6+e5) Ng8f6 5. e3? (Nc3 much better, can play Be3 after Nh5, + can still play e3 or e4) O-O 6. Nb1c3? (h3 saving the Bishop) Nf6h5! 7. Bf1d3? (Bg3) Nh5xf4 8. exf4 Bc8g4! 9. Qd1e2? (maybe Be2 Nc6 11.d5 instead) Nb8c6! 10. O-O-O Nc6xd4 11. Qe2e4 Bg4xf3 12. gxf3 e6 13. Bd3b1 Qd8f6 14. h4 b5! 15. h5 bxc4 16. Qe4xd4? Qf6xd4 17. Rd1xd4 Bg7xd4 18. Nc3e4 Ra8b8 19. b3 cxb3 20. axb3 Rb8xb3 0-1

    The position is lost for White after move 7 due to the weakness of d4 + f4. White must struggle to find a way to minimize the damage. The quickness of the victory after this point is due to missing hard-to-find defensive tries (maybe Rd2 guarding b2 instead of a one-threat-but-otherwise-ineffective move like Bb1), plus Black finding the most aggressive and forcing followups (especially 14...b5!)
  5. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    25 Oct '09 16:34
    Originally posted by KingoftheRink
    Hi All,

    I've starting trying to play some higher grade opponents, and was shocked how easily I was beaten (and how my action was shut down) in this game.

    I have my own ideas on what went wrong, but I would welcome critique from anyone one else who would like to give it. I played white.


    [pgn]1. d4 g6 2. c4 Bf8g7 3. Ng1f3 d6 4. Bc1f4 Ng8f6 5 ...[text shortened]... 17. Rd1xd4 Bg7xd4 18. Nc3e4 Ra8b8 19. b3 cxb3 20. axb3 Rb8xb3 0-1[/pgn]

    Thanks for reading!
    Hi all,

    I was the "other guy" in the game, and KingoftheRink is overly gracious in how he describes the outcome of the game, as the game required more original thought at an early stage than I have been accustomed to on the site. This was a very friendly game, and we were bantering back and forth about the position as we played.

    If one looks at d4 and c4 and thinks of the game as a King's Indian, the play may look a little funny, but I think Black's play takes on much more of an "oh, of course" feeling when interpreted as a Pirc/Modern Defense. In particular, ...Bg4 is a recurring Pirc theme, ...e6 is a Modern//Hippopotamus/Closed Scilian idea against a future f5, and ...b5 is a Modern Defense/Sicilian Dragon line-opening idea.

    I guess maybe I resisted the urge to play a stereotyped King's Indian Defense, and instead approached the position as a 1. e4 game in queenpawn clothing.

    I don't know if this will make sense to everyone, but I am very much a "themes and ideas" right-brain-dominant player, and I play this way to overcome my calculating deficiencies. I should also add that playing here and having so much time to figure out moves is definitely helping my calculating.

    Paul
  6. 25 Oct '09 17:32
    Yes I thought of this as a modern/pirc.

    If you look at whites play in isolation it seems very logical, getting the dark squared bishop
    outside of the pawns before closing the diagonal with e3.

    If you look at blacks play in isolation then playing the knight to h5 was an odd move, placing the
    knight at the edge of the board where it's least effective.

    It's proof really that you can't just follow principles without taking into account what your
    opponent plays.
  7. 06 Nov '09 23:34
    I didn't watch the whole thing, but the main thing i saw was just the fact that he TRIPLED your pawns on the right side, doubled pawns = weak tripled=ready to die. that is just my opinion though, otherwise I didn't see any huge mistakes the other person just out positioned you it looks like to me.
  8. 07 Nov '09 12:31
    1. I agree with everyone that said 7.Bd3 is bad. 7.Bg3 was the move I was thinking about (Bg5 looks like it might be even better). That looks like where your game started falling apart. By letting him capture the bishop on f4 you lose a center pawn and the d4 pawn becomes a target. After that your game becomes a mess of trying to defend the d-pawn and dealing with the pinned N and trying to get castled etc.
    2. You played too passive. You only crossed the middle of the board once and that was a pawn move on move 15. You can't beat good players by sitting back and doing nothing.
    3. The game was over when you traded Queens. You dont have any chance to win an endgame so you should keep trying to attack. I would play hxg6 and then use the h and g files to try and get some counterplay.
  9. 15 Nov '09 10:06
    Seems like Bg3 was necessary in response to Nh5. The end result of having to recapture on f4 allowed black a very accessible target in that of the d4 pawn, which fell in the game. In summary, having to capture away from the center, exf, was the beginning stage of your position collapsing. Hope this helps! =)

    ~ChessNetwork~
    http://www.youtube.com/user/ChessNetwork
  10. Standard member Borgov
    King-Flicker
    15 Nov '09 17:38 / 1 edit
    I think Bf4 and later allowing the Knight to trade it off was the start of you're problems. Then you obviously castled long prematurely, missing the fact that the d pawn was hanging because of the pin on the Knight at f3.
  11. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    16 Nov '09 22:49
    Agree with the above, I don't understand Bf4 and e3 and then allowing the Knight to hack off your bishop. Ignoring theory, e4 before moving the Bishop is logical, since you grab space in the center with no real concession.

    Later Qe2?? pretty much busts the position. It doesn't solve the pin, and gives Black time to bring another piece into the fray.
  12. 16 Nov '09 23:02
    Thanks for the replies guys, most helpful. Ill know to move the bishop in this (& other similar positions) in the future.