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  1. 15 Oct '10 20:37
    Hello,

    Can someone please help me understand the following position:-

    http://www.eudesign.com/chessops/mard-06a.htm

    Why is b7 now a poisoned pawn. I do not see why the Queen cannot escape after taking it? If the rook moves to B8 can the queen not move to c6, taking the knight and giving check, and escape from there, or is rook to b8 not the trap. D5 - b4 perhaps..?

    Rob
  2. Standard member clandarkfire
    Grammar Nazi
    15 Oct '10 21:42
    Ndb4 looks good
  3. 15 Oct '10 22:00 / 2 edits
    Hi

    After the moves.

    1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nf6 3. cxd5 Nxd5 4. Nf3 Bf5 5. Qb3 Nc6 6. Qxb7



    Black plays 6...Nd5-b4 holding c6 and hitting c2.

    If White holds c2 with the standard Na3 - Rb8 wins the queen.



    However all is not too cosy. After 6...Nd5-b4 Black has 7.Qb5.
    (watch that Bishop on f5.)



    Now can Black jump onto c2 with a check.
    After Kd1 a few pieces are hanging.....

    BaronVonChickenpants what would you play here?

  4. 15 Oct '10 22:18 / 1 edit
    Poison pawns are not immune to capture otherwise it would be a trap. Capturing a poisoned pawn will lead to positional or tactical problems. P.S. Looking at a database I do not think that White should take the b pawn. This opening is named after G M Frank Marshall.
  5. 15 Oct '10 22:19
    I'd be tempted to take the knight on c6, giving check. He either has to move the queen or bishop to block. If the queen I can get the rook giving check again. If the bishop I can then get the other knight.

    I think!
  6. 15 Oct '10 22:23
    I'm an idiot, I was thinking it was whites move, its black... Let me take another look.
  7. 15 Oct '10 22:36
    I'd want to take the rook, but that dos leave me open to the check I mentioned before. Perhaps defend the knight by moving queen to d7?
  8. 15 Oct '10 22:52
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Hi

    After the moves.

    1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nf6 3. cxd5 Nxd5 4. Nf3 Bf5 5. Qb3 Nc6 6. Qxb7

    [fen]r2qkb1r/pQp1pppp/2n5/3n1b2/3P4/5N2/PP2PPPP/RNB1KB1R b KQkq - 0 6[/fen]

    Black plays 6...Nd5-b4 holding c6 and hitting c2.

    If White holds c2 with the standard Na3 - Rb8 wins the queen.

    [fen]1r1qkb1r/pQp1pppp/2n5/5b2/1n1P4/N4N2/PP2PPPP/R1B1KB1R w KQk - 0 ...[text shortened]... uld you play here?

    [fen]r2qkb1r/p1p1pppp/2n5/1Q3b2/3P4/5N2/PPn1PPPP/RNBK1B1R b kq - 0 8[/fen]
    in your 2nd diagram what about e5!? then if nxe5 qxd4 with threat of n-c2#
  9. 15 Oct '10 22:54 / 1 edit
    That's it. 8...Qd7



    Was seeing if you would go for the tactical 8...Bd7.



    If 9.KxB Nd4+ wins the Queen.

    But there is the snag. 10.NxN BxQ 12.NxB



    White gets three active bits for the Queen....interesting.
  10. 15 Oct '10 23:21
    Some examples from RHP of the QNP getting snaffed
    by the Queen leading to an early bath.

    First a thoughtless pawn grab by White.
    What else did he expect Black to play after 7.Qxb7.
    This is called thinking ½ a move ahead.

    wijk - Duijn2 RHP 2007 (these two have played each other over 100 times).



    Dynamic09 - rookwhar RHP 2005

    Black falls for a line very similiar to the one that started this thread.
    Black covers c7 to save the a8 Rook and losses his Queen.



    Finally. The Queen gets caught by a Bishop instead.
    A shocking pawn steal by Black.

    Diggitus - stranger2003 RHP 2005

  11. 15 Oct '10 23:35
    Hi Erikido - just noticed your post.

    Yes 7...e5 is a move with a nice trap lurking.



    White most likely covers c2 with Na3, though I can semoe taking the e-pawn.

    But with 8...Qd7 Black can go for 7...Nc2+.
  12. 16 Oct '10 01:31
    Originally posted by greenpawn34

    First a thoughtless pawn grab by White.
    What else did he expect Black to play after 7.Qxb7.
    This is called thinking ½ a move ahead.

    wijk - Duijn2 RHP 2007 (these two have played each other over 100 times).

    [pgn]
    1. c4 d5 2. cxd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. d4 Nc6 6. Qb3 Bg4 7. Qxb7
    Rb8[/pgn]
    Sorry gp, but you will have to spell it out for us woodpushers. Does Qxc6+ work?
  13. 16 Oct '10 10:52
    Ha Brilliant. Well played Monty.

    Triple blindness.
    (maybe more..how come only Monty posted).

    I put this postion into my DB....



    asking it to find 0-1 under 10 moves. 72 appeared.
    I must have seen so many that were wins I just copied the pgn.

    But this is wrong!



    White can just take the c6 Knight!.

    Never take the QNP with the Queen

    Your opponent can play a bad moves and win.
    You will resign in a won position.
    And some nut job will believe it and write about it years later.

    'This is called writng ½ a move ahead. ' 🙂

    (and don't forget folks......Check all Checks!) 😀

    Could have said I sneaked that one in to see if anyone was paying
    attention but that would not be true. I gaffed. (again).
    Never going to believe 1400 players again. 😉
  14. 17 Oct '10 01:16
    Originally posted by greenpawn34

    Never take the QNP with the Queen
    Only if you can win a pawn and Knight, yes? 😀

    Seriously, this is good advice in a majority of the cases. The two dangers are:

    1. YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE YOUR QUEEN! (Yes, I'm shouting, it is that important.)

    2. Your opponent can develop pieces that attack your Q while she has to flee. It would not be unusual for your opponent to get 2 or 3 pieces out which is the same as 2 or 3 free moves. Are you good enough to give your opponent 2 or 3 free moves?

    However, a pawn is worth a little trouble (Tarrasch?). If you understand the <serious> downside to grabbing the b-pawn in most situations, then you can evaluate the possible benefits of the steal in the position in front of you. They are:

    1. material (a pawn is a pawn is a pawn)

    2. brings about an isolated a-pawn and possible isolated/backward c-pawn for your opponent

    3. you have a very active Queen perhaps ripping through a defense that is not quite ready, mistakes by your opponent may give you more than a pawn

    Perhaps evaluate it like this:

    1 Does the Rook moving to the b-file trap the Queen or can your Queen be chased around by your opponent's minor pieces? No brainer, don't do it.

    2 Is MY b-pawn protected? Nothing worse than the enemy Rook moving to the b-file and snapping off my pawn when my Queen moves out of the way.

    3 Am I ready to play an open game? Do I trust my tactical sense?
  15. 17 Oct '10 10:18
    I`m kinda too lazy to calculate but I predict taking the pawn loses instantlyish.

    Perhaps black should move the other knight to b4.

    Though either one I think is clobberiferous.