Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Only Chess Forum

Only Chess Forum

  1. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    28 Jul '10 21:38


    I think it all started going wrong as early as move 2 for me, Nc6. Any other boners?
  2. 28 Jul '10 22:01 / 4 edits
    Nc6 is indeed rarely played, but playable. I wouldn't have a clue what to do though! e6, c6 and Nf6 are the best moves at move 2. I think you got a really position out of the opening though. I think Nd7 was the blunder, but I just bolted through the moves. It seems like losing your bishop did it. b6 creating weaknesses wasn't too pretty either. Afterwards your plan should have been to find a way to break with the C-pawn to equalise, not a speculative kingside attack.
  3. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    28 Jul '10 23:13
    I like 12...Kh8 followed by ...f5. I see no reason to trade the Nd5 so quickly.
  4. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    28 Jul '10 23:46
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I like 12...Kh8 followed by ...f5. I see no reason to trade the Nd5 so quickly.
    I like this idea. This is Chigorin's Defense, and I had no idea it had such a close connection to Alekhine's Defense- I have had similar positions in games that started 1. e4 Nf6.

    My casual impression was that the game was lost in the middle- and endgame. I actually liked the opening, and I'm thinking of looking more closely at it now.

    Paul
  5. 29 Jul '10 00:05
    I think the idea with 2N6 is to immediately remove the white d-pawn and possibly trade queens. Something like

    d4 ...d5
    c4 ...Nc6
    Nc3 ...dxc4
    intending ...Qxd4

    3 ...Nf6 was not the best move. e6 or dxc4 would have been safer.

    6 d5 ...Na5 b4 ...Nc4 Qb3 would have been difficult for you defend.

    12...Re1 might have been better also.


    If you want to try the defense, I would suggest looking at the game Steinitz Chigorin 1898, and trying to figure out where Chigorin went wrong. Morozevich also has played a few games using this defense.
  6. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    29 Jul '10 00:06
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    I like this idea. This is Chigorin's Defense, and I had no idea it had such a close connection to Alekhine's Defense- I have had similar positions in games that started 1. e4 Nf6.

    My casual impression was that the game was lost in the middle- and endgame. I actually liked the opening, and I'm thinking of looking more closely at it now.

    Paul
    I went to the database to see what normally happens in this opening, and it appears 5. ... Nxb3 is by far the most popular move in the game position, with ...Nb6 a distant 3rd.

    I think the idea is similar to the Gruenfeld Exchange, where white is allowed to build a pawn center for black to assault.

    I followed the 5. ... Nxc3 idea in the database with the best/most popular moves for both sides, and this is the highest-rated sample game I found for black:

  7. 29 Jul '10 00:24
    By move 13 I think I would have been looking to trade pieces and get into the endgame given his isolated pawn, your queenside pawn majority, and your sound pawn structure.

    On move 14 I'd have taken his knight, he'd have probably taken back with his bishop and then I'd have moved bishop to b5 to keep the pressure on. I'd also have been thinking about doubling my rooks on the e file.

    By move 20 I'd have blundered, lost my queen, had a cup of tea and then gone to bed.
  8. 29 Jul '10 01:47 / 2 edits
    The spirit of the Chigorin is to bang in e5. It's why the Knight goes to c6.
    If White does not prevent this with 3.Nf3 then shut your eyes and bang in e5.



    4.dxe5 d4



    4.cxd5 Nxd4



    Open your eyes and your pieces are free.
    0-0, no more pawn moves and fight the good fight.

    Of course 'Theory' which is just the collected thoughts of GM games
    (and how many GM's do we play?) frowns upon this so therefore it is playable.

    Try to avoid putting Knights on b6 (and b3) they always seem bad on that square
    and often have very little influence on the game
  9. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    29 Jul '10 03:13
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    I went to the database to see what normally happens in this opening, and it appears 5. ... Nxb3 is by far the most popular move in the game position, with ...Nb6 a distant 3rd.

    I think the idea is similar to the Gruenfeld Exchange, where white is allowed to build a pawn center for black to assault.

    I followed the 5. ... Nxc3 idea in the database ...[text shortened]... e3 31. Nf3 Qxc4 32. h3 Qxa2 33. Ne5 Qf2 34. Nd3 Qg3 0-1[/pgn]
    Thanks everyone, that helped! This game you showed, is that an RHP game? If not, who and what year?
  10. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Gonzalo de Córdoba
    29 Jul '10 04:15
    You were fine until move 15. At that time you should have done something about the threat on the queenside.
  11. 29 Jul '10 08:09 / 4 edits
    5...Nb6 feels like a developmental blunder.

    If you take on c3 instead white doesn`t get a free move he needs to recapture without developing a piece but after moving to b6 white doesn`t need to waste time recapturing but can get on with developing a piece .

    I also wonder if black would be less cramped by playing 7...Bb4 intending to trade a piece so he will have fewer pieces dancing around in the cell.

    Like a prison cell seems more spacious and more freedomy if you have less people in that cell.

    I don`t think white should play 10.d5 for the corrollary of the prison cell reason.

    20...b6 is a bit of a mystery too since if black says ok I pass and white takes on b7 then black could take on f3 with check.
    Instead black could try 20...a5 intending 21...Ra6 and 22...Rb6
  12. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    29 Jul '10 10:43
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Thanks everyone, that helped! This game you showed, is that an RHP game? If not, who and what year?
    If you click on "header" it will show you the details. It's a game from the California championship in 1997.

    I'm really glad you shared your game, as you have given me something to think about for my own repertoire. I've been looking for something new against 1. d4 to expand my horizons a bit, and this might be the ticket!
  13. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    29 Jul '10 17:34
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    If you click on "header" it will show you the details. It's a game from the California championship in 1997.

    I'm really glad you shared your game, as you have given me something to think about for my own repertoire. I've been looking for something new against 1. d4 to expand my horizons a bit, and this might be the ticket!
    Thanks, I might try it again sometime armed with this analysis.