Hello all - thought it might be interesting to get some public analysis on this wonderfully confusing idea. How best to fight the odd and against common (chess) sense opening moves. I have been using the Scotch occasionally - and in my analysis considered this:
1 e4..e5
2 Nf3..Nc6
3 d4..exd4
4 Bc4..Na5?!
Why not? Qxd5 gets the (temporarily sacrificed) pawn back, but the move really bugs me, as in the scotch the light square bishop is a big part of potential attack. Couldn't make Bxf7 do anything great yet. Against the Morphy rules to retreat it - yet perhaps that is best? Any thoughts?
I'm reminded of the famous drawn game, Hammpe - Meitner played in 1872
If White takes the b7 Bishop then Black mates with Kd7.
14.Bc6 is also forced to stave of a mate.
So what about 4...Na5 in the The Scotch?
In a Blitz Game I'd sac on f7 the moment the Knight landed on a5.
OTB.
There is nothing wrong with 5.Qxd4 but I understand how it can 'bug' you.
Did Kasparov not play an early Na5 in this opening v Karpov/ Short?
There might not be no 'book' refutation - but as always head for a position
you think you can play - one that suits you.
Search the gold mine that is on here - the games between players 1400-1900 for ideas.
http://www.timeforchess.com/gamesexplorer/
10 times this position has appeared - 9 guys played 5.Qxd4.
One enterprising spirit 'Ice Cold' played 5.Bd3. A move that I'd
seriously consider playing.
Here is one game I found with 5.Qxd4.
Originally posted by SophyIts true that white has a lead in development after Qxc4, and the Q is hampering the black dark square bishop's development and can't be easily displaced. Still the strange N move puts the white player out of the comfort zone, perhaps without permanent damage.
black has not developped a piece, so I don't think he should play Na5 then Nxc4, but if he don't then you retreat and his move make no sense.
True, that move is not so good. but I believe Qxd5 Nxc4 is good for white.
Originally posted by greenpawn34Thanks Greenpawn, I had seen the Hammpe - Meitner game before, vaguely remember that a couple of guys played it out as part of a pre-arranged draw in a tournament more recently, causing a stir at the same time as reintroducing it to the young players. I'll have to go through it again, what a cool game!
I'm reminded of the famous drawn game, Hammpe - Meitner played in 1872
[pgn]
1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Bc5 3. Na4 Bxf2+ 4. Kxf2 Qh4+ 5. Ke3 Qf4+ 6. Kd3 d5 7. Kc3 Qxe4 8. Kb3 Na6 9. a3 Qxa4+ 10. Kxa4 Nc5+ 11. Kb4 a5+ 12. Kxc5 Ne7 13. Bb5+ Kd8 14. Bc6 b6+ 15. Kb5 Nxc6 16. Kxc6 Bb7+ 17. Kb5 Ba6+ 18. Kc6 Bb7+ 19. Kb5 Ba6+ 20. Kc6 Bb7+ [/pgn]
If White takes the ...[text shortened]... . Bc1e3 Bg4xf3 16. gxf3 Ne4c5 17. Ra1e1 Bf8e7 18. Na8c7[/pgn]
Not surprised that Ice Cold tried something different - good player - he and I had a couple of good battles a while back. And point taken, I tend to only use the explorer to get through openings, not as a study tool, going there first.
I'll do a little more work on the Bxf7 variation and see what I can come up with.
Side note - thanks for elevating the level of the discussion in this forum in general, I've been enjoying reading your posts. That and the Forum v Pawn Riot threads make RHP worthwhile even if I couldn't play chess here 🙂.
So looking at the variations after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 Na5?! 5.Bxf7?! Kxf7 6.Ne5+
4 choices for the black King.
Kf6?? Allows 7.Bg5+! Kxg5 8.Nf7+ wins the black Queen 🙂
Ke6? Allows 7.Qg4+! Kxe5 8.Bf4+ Kf7 9.Bg5+ wins the Queen. if instead 8.Bf4+ Kxe4 then you get the super cool 9.Nc3+!! dxc3 10.O-O-O and black can only delay f3# (or various discovery mates moving the bishop)
Ke8 - 7.Qh5+ g6 8.Nxg6 Nf6 9.Qe5+ Be7 10.Nxh8 Nc6 - white is up the exchange and Qg5! looks interesting because the Nf6 can't move due to a 2 move mate Qg8+, then Qf7#
Ke7 is the move I couldn't really find any way to crack.
Black has choices - Nf6, d6 etc and can defend. Not very comfy perhaps, but up a piece.
Looking at 7.Bg5 and 8.Qxd4 but getting really complicated here...
Possibly Black can play d6, Nc6 and chase away the attack while developing?