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  1. 08 May '12 02:44
    I have white, the game was a draw, but I would like to know if white could have won this game?

    White to move:

  2. Standard member Natural Science
    blunderer of pawns
    08 May '12 04:17 / 1 edit
    I would not take a draw here without demonstrating to myself that I cannot make progress without taking on significant risk. Black's queen is about as active as she's going to get; seems you can march your king toward your own queen, and use them to "put the question" to his queen, with very little risk of counterplay from him. Once you've managed to free your queen from her task of guarding the guy on c2, you can use her to start putting your extra force to use. No deep analysis here, just a cursory glance over the position, but I wouldn't have agreed to a draw so quickly here.
  3. 08 May '12 17:46
    Thanks for your reply, I was mainly afraid of a repetition in check that he was looking for, I wanted to move my queen to the other side of the board but durng that move he could capture one or two of my pawns taking my advantage away, and maybe loosing a won game since I have two pawn Islands and if I moved my queen to the other side then only one king to protect them, I think my fear of loosing having the chance for draw drove me to accept the draw.
  4. 08 May '12 21:12
    Hi Superman.

    You have improved since you were this guy User 38344

    (out of curiosity how many times have you heard that joke?)

    Queen endings with pawns all over the place are murder.
    If you activate the King it gets checked to dust.
    If you try to do it without the King the opponent's Queen starts
    sniffing at your King or a loose pawn.
    You need 10 pairs of eyes and two brains.

    I read somewhere that Q + muliple pawns ending are beyond human reasoning.

    (If you want to catch a cheat have a look at who is winning all the Q+P endings!)

    If you have a passed pawn then that is something to work with.
    A passed pawn in a Q + P ending can mean you are winning, even if you
    are two or three pawns down. The win then can appear trivial.

    I've seen some classy wins with pawns on the same side of the board
    3 v 2 and 3 v 4 though I've never been involved in anything like that.

    Something like this. (I cannot remember who it was.)
    It was in book for advanced players (those who need to be more
    than just a good tactician) I must have been going though one of my rare
    I must get better phases which usuallty last about ½ an hour.


    It's not the position but Black had 3 v 2 and that pawn formation.

    The winning plan was to bring the Black King round to f2.
    It worked but trying to analsye other White moves to stop this plan
    seemed to prevent it. Of course that is me not finding the correct course.
    (or maybe I did and I bust it!)

    Anyway I looked at your game. Game 9211093
    You side step his Blackburne trap.
    He has caught at least one player on here with it Game 8402974

    here:


    Instead of chopping the Rook on b6 22.Rxb6.
    I latched onto 22.e5 it seems like fun and it has tactical back up.
    (what else can I show you? I am certainly not going to try and work out
    what is happening in the agreed draw, though White is better he needs to
    create a passed pawn without allowing a thousand checks. It's not a me position.)

    So just some loose analysis, not the best moves but there may be something
    you can store for a rainy day. This is a me position.

  5. 09 May '12 01:02
    Jajajaja that was a good joke:
    "Hi Superman.

    You have improved since you were this guy User 38344 "

    (out of curiosity how many times have you heard that joke?) First time I hear it!!

    And thanks for your answer its so helpful, I dint think of your way of playing the game since from the time I was up by a pawn I wanted to exchange all to arrive at an easy ending, of course from now on I will think of it in a different way.

    Another thing is that I am rusty, had more than 2 years without looking at a board, I think I will have to read again some books on endings, since I tend to play ending oriented.

    Thanks again and good blog!
  6. 09 May '12 14:06
    We aint finished yet Superman.
    That game I mentioned of course bugged me till I found it.

    It's here:

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1431069

    One lad in his comments says:

    " This queen endgame is probably the best out there. "

    So no doubt it has appeared in a few books.

    It's not quite as baffling as it was when I first saw it, but there are still gaps.

    We pick up the game with the ending about to start.

    Plan: Get the Black King staring in the face of the White King to set up
    mating threats or forced Queen swaps.

    Ciocaltea - Unzicker Alekhine Memorial 1956.

  7. 09 May '12 14:24
    You know what? this is what I needed to watch to understand how this endings are played, this is what I should have done in my case with white, I was afraid exactly about all the checks, but now I see that this is the way to play these endings, of course I saved a lot of time drawing, because this is correspondence and it could take months.

    Thanks again for this example, it cleared my doubt, very interesting ending, I think I will try to avoid it in correspondence, but if I get to it, I will play it the next time.

    Thanks again!
  8. 09 May '12 16:43
    Your game is different, there are pawns all over the place so the
    side chasing the win has to keep an eye on the weaker ones.

    The first part will be as mentioned to get the King centralised and
    sieze the good squares by offering Queen swaps.
    Then create a passed pawn. A Capablanca (or an Unzicker) will make it all
    appear so easy.

    I'm loath to use GM games when explaining things, but here I had no choice.
    I'll see if I can find an RHP game(s).
    If the lads on here can do it then there is no excuse.

    Then do it in stages. (no running before we can walk, that's a common mistake.)

    First Q v Q and a passed pawn to show how we nurse the pawn home.

    Then creating a passer in Q + Q ending at the same time stifling perp check
    attampts and cover weaker pawns.

    Then how to handle your position will should/become clearer.

    (of course the David Tebbs on this site will be smiling at the very near sighted
    leading the blind...'This will be a laugh, greenpawn is looking at endings.'

    At the moment I'm up for it but I know me.
    Endings bore the living daylights out of me. They always have done.
    (especially games like the Unzicker game where there are a whole load of other
    moves that look OK and need digging out. Far too much like hard work.)
  9. 09 May '12 23:03
    I'm back.

    I found a game from the Championship where Black follows the Unzicker plan!

    dejongh - wimble RHP Championship Game 9040357



    Next we see the dangers of such a plan.

    dhdenbow - pitch RHP July 2009



    Same theme. Be careful.

    allstarjaffe - trompie RHP March 2010

  10. 09 May '12 23:29 / 1 edit
    In game 1 it was a good example, as you said the guy was reading.

    In game 2 we have a diferent story, I think the problem was to leave the king alone in the middle of the pawns, the correct plan for me is to keep the queen near blocking checks and at the same time offering exchange while the king makes his way to the other side of the board, am I correct?

    In the last game it was a blunder to allow that mate, the lesson for me here is: why is he moving his king to the corner? he should go the other way to obtain the position we saw on game one, where king and queen corner the opposite king.

    Thanks for posting all these examples!
  11. 10 May '12 00:17
    But enough of this.

    Let us see a real Queen in action.

    This is from a 1938 Australian Chess Magazine The Australasian Chess Review P.117.
    White is giving odds of Both Rooks, Both Bishops and the Queen's Knight.
    (White could have tossed in the other Knight as well because he does not use it.)

    G. Koshnitsky - N.N. Australia 1938

  12. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    10 May '12 01:08 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    [b]If you have a passed pawn then that is something to work with.
    A passed pawn in a Q + P ending can mean you are winning, even if you
    are two or three pawns down. The win then can appear trivial.
    At one point I lost a series of Q&P endings OTB, and I was very frustrated, so I broke down and studied Q&P endings.

    They are almost impossible to study, but the principle is that it is not the amount of pawns, but how far advanced any single passed pawn is, that matters. GP made this point in a slightly different form, but I think it is the most important part of his post, in terms of actually playing the ending.

    Few people at the amateur level actually know this, so it makes it relatively easy to start winning them OTB.

    Sometimes you can even trick people into these lost endings by sacrificing a pawn or two simply to advance one far enough to promote it or force an exchange for your opponent's queen -winning on the spot, in effect.
  13. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    10 May '12 01:16
    Originally posted by Superman
    I have white, the game was a draw, but I would like to know if white could have won this game?

    White to move:

    [fen]6k1/8/1p3p1p/2p3p1/P3P3/1PqP3P/2P3P1/3Q3K w - - 1 34[/fen]
    I think a computer will show this with a substantial plus for white initially, but I don't see a good way for white to create a passed pawn, so I suspect that there is no progress to be made.

    Perhaps a computer calculating long enough to reach a tablebase position would yield a definitive answer- or a player on the site who knows endings really well.

    I'm curious to see where we end up on this thread!
  14. 10 May '12 12:32 / 2 edits
    The Batsford Book of Chess Endings.

    I should have looked at this. (It's not a book I often dive into.)
    It has the Unzicker game.
    It took a wee while to find this game, for some reason my tiny brain was
    throwing up the name Ulhmann.

    On Queen v Queen endings the book has this to say.

    "Despite sterling analytical work by the Russian GM Yuri Averbakh....

    (My wife left me and I won't Averbakh....)

    ...and the Czech Jaroslav Pospisil (who he?) and game analyse by
    Paul Keres and Mikhail Botvinnik and access to computer programs like
    BELLE these endings are often beyong human capability."

    I mentioned something like that, possibly got it from the book.

    I have a 2nd hand a copy (£2.00) from 1993 so it's a good bet Rybka
    and Fritz will have overtaken BELLE. (or has it?).

    I wonder too where this thread will end.

    Superman should have fallen for the Blackburne Shilling Trap and
    become the world's 22,345th victim.

    Or fall into the trap, sac a Knight and get oodles of play.

  15. 10 May '12 13:07
    Originally posted by greenpawn34


    Superman should have fallen for the Blackburne Shilling Trap and
    become the world's 22,345th victim.
    When I lived in my home city, maybe 4 yeras ago, I used to play a lot of 5 minute blitz chees(I was and still are one of the worst players among my friends, of course I had my days), so because of that time playing blitz I became aware of almost all opening tricks, and even though now I dont remember them, maybe my brain is rejecting them following the patterns I used to follow then.

    I noticed that in correspondence chess my brain has the time to catch a good move, but I was playing blitz here a few days ago and it wasnt like 4 years ago, I mostly got to time trouble in every game, and fell for most tricks.

    This is an example of a recent game here on RHP, in this game I had no Idea what to do in the opening, I think I was saved by the bell because I felt so dominated by white, to me this was a lost game from the begining:



    But dont worry, I am sure I will be falling for some( or most) oppening tricks here on RHP for a while.