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  1. Subscriber 64squaresofpain On Vacation
    The drunk knight
    22 Mar '16 16:17
    Greetings, players and fellow patzers 🙂

    Recently in a game I had this position:


    I had the White pieces, my turn to move.

    Perhaps I didn't put much thought into this, as I played Rd7, which allowed Re4,
    resulting in a fruitless race between White's a-pawn and Black's c-pawn.
    The game was agreed a draw not long after.

    Instead, what is a better way for White to progress?
    (To those whom this is obvious to, give others a chance!)

    Hint
    you have to make Black play a move he doesn't want to
  2. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    22 Mar '16 16:48
    Originally posted by 64squaresofpain
    Greetings, players and fellow patzers 🙂

    Recently in a game I had this position:

    [fen]4r1k1/p5pp/5p2/2p5/2PR4/8/P1P2PPP/5K2[/fen]
    I had the White pieces, my turn to move.

    Perhaps I didn't put much thought into this, as I played Rd7, which allowed Re4,
    resulting in a fruitless race between White's a-pawn and Black's c-pawn.
    The game was ag ...[text shortened]... others a chance!)

    Hint [hidden]you have to make Black play a move he doesn't want to[/hidden]
    This is an excellent example. It's about concepts and strategic principles, and once the ideas are understood, rook endings become that much easier.
  3. 22 Mar '16 18:25
    Is it this?

    Rd5
  4. 22 Mar '16 18:30
    At least you can blame late Nimtzowitsch::: Rook on the 7th row is half of a win.
    I suppose you just followed that rule without any calculation.
  5. Subscriber 64squaresofpain On Vacation
    The drunk knight
    22 Mar '16 20:39
    Originally posted by tvochess
    Is it this?

    [hidden][/hidden]
    Could you elaborate?

    It is the right move, but why so?
  6. 23 Mar '16 01:06 / 1 edit
    It forces Rc8 to save the pawn. Then when followed by Rd7, Black needs to play Ra8 to save the c-pawn. Then Rc7 wins the c-pawn. If Black instead tries Re4 (after White Rd5), then Rxc5 immediately defends the White c-pawn. The two pawns on the second rank are safe because of White's king position.

    PS: But now I'm in doubt whether White will be able to queen one of his pawns. Probably he can by bringing his king up the board so that White's rook can get behind the pawns again.
  7. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    23 Mar '16 02:32
    Originally posted by tvochess
    It forces Rc8 to save the pawn. Then when followed by Rd7, Black needs to play Ra8 to save the c-pawn. Then Rc7 wins the c-pawn. If Black instead tries Re4 (after White Rd5), then Rxc5 immediately defends the White c-pawn. The two pawns on the second rank are safe because of White's king position.

    PS: But now I'm in doubt whether White will be able to qu ...[text shortened]... ly he can by bringing his king up the board so that White's rook can get behind the pawns again.
    After 1. Rd5 black has 1. ... Re5 which also defends the pawn, if then 2. Rd7 black can play 2. ... Re4 and the c-pawn falls anyway. 2. Rxe5 fxe5 might work as black has more isolated pawns but it's still looking drawish to me. So 2. f4 and then either 2. ... Rxd5 3. cxd5 which looks dreadful for black or 2. ... Re4 when white's hand is forced and we get 3. Rxc5 Rxf4+ when white's clearly better because of the passed pawns and the better position of his king. I'm imagining something like 4. Ke2 Re4+ 5. Kd3 Re7. Rooks belong behind passed pawns but black can't afford to lose the rook's pawn as well.
  8. Subscriber sundown316
    The Mighty Messenger
    23 Mar '16 03:38
    Personally, I don't see any better move for you than Rd7. Yes, he goes after your c-pawn, but it can't be defended, so it has to be left to its fate
  9. Subscriber 64squaresofpain On Vacation
    The drunk knight
    23 Mar '16 14:40
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    After 1. Rd5 black has 1. ... Re5 which also defends the pawn, if then 2. Rd7 black can play 2. ... Re4 and the c-pawn falls anyway. 2. Rxe5 fxe5 might work as black has more isolated pawns but it's still looking drawish to me. So 2. f4 and then either 2. ... Rxd5 3. cxd5 which looks dreadful for black or 2. ... Re4 when white's hand is forced and we g ...[text shortened]... 5/2PR4/8/P1P2PPP/5K2 w - - 0 1"] 1. Rd5 Re5 2. f4 Re4 3. Rxc5 Rxf4+ 4. Ke2 Re4+ 5. Kd3 Re7[/pgn]
    Yes, after Rd5 there is Re5 as well as Rc8, but both times I believe White has better chances of winning, and reasonably forced.
    Now who knows, there could always be more chances further down the line to mess up and draw anyway, but at least it doesn't draw immediately as per Rd7 🙂

    Thanks for showing the idea in PGN by the way, I should learn to show moves from set-up positions myself.