God, I hate the Rossolimo anti-Sicilian attack. It's one reason to avoid playing c5 IMHO. Anyways, in this game on Gameknot, I don't really know what I did wrong. The game says 40 moves, but don't let that fool you, it was lost at move 10, and I defended the whole game. That queen move on move 10 shocked me, it seemed noobish to go queen marauding in the opening, but I couldn't find a defense, then my opponent did several other queen moves in the opening that were hard to defend.
Anyways, I admit, I lost this bad in the opening, and it was one of the worse games I ever played, I wish I knew why my opening was so bad, the Rossolimo seems to leave you no choice but to double up pawns in an awkward construction, and your peices simply get blocked up. White players often then push their f pawn like crazy, Grand Prix style, and your game structure is simply terrible and cramped. I often get beat on this line, some players beat me by simply pushing pawns.
I often try trading in that doubled pawn, but of course they won't bite.
1. Nc3, c5
2. e4, Nc6
3. Bb5, e6
4. Bxc6, bxc6
5. f4, Ba6
6. d3, d5
7. Nf3, Be7
8. Ne5, Qb6
9. exd5, cxd5
10. Qg4, Bf6
11. Nxd5, Qd8
12. Nxf6+, Qxf6
13. Qf3, Rc8
14. Qe4, c4
15. O-O, Qe7
16. Nxc4, Nf6
17. Qe2, O-O
18. b3, Bb7
19. Ba3, Qc7
20. Bxf8, Rxf8
21. f5, Re8
22. Ra-e1, Qc6
23. fxe6, Rxe6
24. Qf2, Rxe1
25. Rxe1, Ng4
26. Qd2, h5
27. d4, Qc7
28. Re8+, Kh7
29. Ne5, Nf6
30. Rf8, Bd5
31. c4, Be6
32. Nf3, Ng4
33. Qg5, Nf6
34. Qe5, Qe7
35. Rxf7, Qa3
36. Qxe6, Qc1+
37. Qe1, Qb2
38. Rxa7, Ng4
39. Qe4+, Kh6
40. Qf4+,
Originally posted by mateuloseWell,this is not the Rossolino variation of the Sicilian,it's a Sicilian closed.
God, I hate the Rossolimo anti-Sicilian attack. It's one reason to avoid playing c5 IMHO. Anyways, in this game on Gameknot, I don't really know what I did wrong. The game says 40 moves, but don't let that fool you, it was lost at move 10, and I defended the whole game. That queen move on move 10 shocked me, it seemed noobish to go queen marauding in th ...[text shortened]... Qe7
35. Rxf7, Qa3
36. Qxe6, Qc1+
37. Qe1, Qb2
38. Rxa7, Ng4
39. Qe4+, Kh6
40. Qf4+,
Sicilian Rossolino variation:1.e4,c5 2.Nf3,Nc6 3.Bb5,g6
Actually Ravello the Rossolimo Sicilian is 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5. g6 is a common next move but not required to be a Rossolimo.
That's not what was played in your game. Your game is a closed Sicilian variation. Not an antisicilian (neither the closed Nc3 sicilian or the Rossolimo are anti-sicilian, the two major anti-sicilians are the Gran Prix Attack and the Smith Morrah Gambit).
I have the last book move as ...e6 however Bxc6 bxc6 f4 has been played 13 times in my database.
The first novelty it seems is ...Ba6. Much better I believe is ...d5 trying to undouble your pawns and strike at the centre. Notice how after d3 your Ba6 is pretty useless.
...Be7 is a big mistake. Needed is either ...Qb6 or ...Nf6.
After Ne5 white is ahead by around half a pawn. You complain about Qg4 but it is the correct move. Your response ...Bf6 is just bad, ...g6 keeps the game close. You miss the simple tactic winning the d5 pawn as if you play ...exd5 it's mate in two.
I could go on like this but it's obvious. The opponent played well you didn't. You complain he made a large number of queen moves, well they were all good moves. You made bad moves, if you do that you lose simple as that. Stop complaining about the opening and start not falling for simple tactics.
Originally posted by XanthosNZugh, if I played g6 on move 10, he could of done the same tactic anyways, but ah well.
Actually Ravello the Rossolimo Sicilian is 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5. g6 is a common next move but not required to be a Rossolimo.
That's not what was played in your game. Your game is a closed Sicilian variation. Not an antisicilian (neither the closed Nc3 sicilian or the Rossolimo are anti-sicilian, the two major anti-sicilians are the Gran Prix Attac ...[text shortened]... ose simple as that. Stop complaining about the opening and start not falling for simple tactics.
Anyways, this "closed" Sicilian madness, I HATE IT! I always get steamrolled by it. The move, d3, seems super strong, the game is so closed up and blocked up you cannot do anything to breakthrough, and your cramped. I really hate French like formations, and that's what this silly closed Sicilian brings. What should I do in this variation? What's the plan? Because I cannot find any plans. Is the plan to just stand pat and build knight outposts like my opponent did? What?
Anyways, I'm throwing out the Sicilian, Sicilians are only fun when they are not closed d3 crap, with d3, it's like the French with those silly pawn chains, and I hate Frenchie games. So I need a new defense to e4, what should it be?
And last put not least, GROW THE F*** UP PPL! I ASK FOR HELP, AND YOU INSULT ME, AND I'M SICK OF IT, GROW THE F*** UP!
I need a new defense to e4, the closed Sicilian makes it unfun and non agressive for black, so what should I use? Any openings black can use that has good counter-attack?
"The first novelty it seems is ...Ba6. Much better I believe is ...d5 trying to undouble your pawns and strike at the centre. Notice how after d3 your Ba6 is pretty useless."
I played Ba6, then I played d5 next, so don't say I didn't do that. You are off base here, you are just flinging insults for the sake of flinging, because you enjoy insulting mateulose.
BTW, moving your knight to f6 in this variation SUCKS because then they just play the pawn to e5 with support of the f pawn, and you are more cramped up then imagined, you then have no place to move your knight away, unless you want to step back, or step forward and double up even MORE of your pawns. This variation just kills me, it's very imbalanced and has no substance.
Originally posted by mateuloseMate,I don't think Xanthos was insulting you.You asked for help,he tried to offer some help.He made some good points,imo.
BTW, moving your knight to f6 in this variation SUCKS because then they just play the pawn to e5 with support of the f pawn, and you are more cramped up then imagined, you then have no place to move your knight away, unless you want to step back, or step forward and double up even MORE of your pawns. This variation just kills me, it's very imbalanced and has no substance.
If you ask for help,you must be willing to accept some criticism on your play.
Originally posted by mateuloseIf you're so concerned about Bb5 doubling pawns, play 2 ...... d6 and aim for either a Najdorf or a Dragon; if those aren't aggressive enougn for you as Black I don't know what would be. If they play 3 Bb5+ (the real Rossolimo) block with the Bishop and when he takes it capture with the Queen and then you can deploy your knight to c6. And if White allows you to play d5 early in any Sicilian line, do it and stop putting your Bishop on a6 to disrupt castling; it doesn't work that early in the game and the Bishop's on a useless diagonal when White plays d3.
BTW, moving your knight to f6 in this variation SUCKS because then they just play the pawn to e5 with support of the f pawn, and you are more cramped up then imagined, you then have no place to move your knight away, unless you want to st ...[text shortened]... riation just kills me, it's very imbalanced and has no substance.
"You complain he made a large number of queen moves, well they were all good moves. You made bad moves, if you do that you lose simple as that. Stop complaining about the opening and start not falling for simple tactics."
I consider this an insult, especially considering the fact I SAW ALL THOSE TACTICS COMING, but couldn't find a way to stop them. He offered me no way to prevent them, other then telling me somehow puting my bishop on e7 caused a mass array of tactics 7 moves later, I doubt even he, himself could see that coming, and I doubt my opponent was thinking 7 moves ahead in an opening. He just naturally found stuff and went for whatever queen tactic he could find, and it worked, usually it doesn't. People find such "brilliant" moves by accident at times. I don't know, maybe he's right, maybe that dude is some 2000 plus rater who sees 7 moves ahead quickly in an opening, he was a provisional with a 9-1 record, but his one loss was against a 1500 rater, so...
All I know is I lose Yahoo games in this similar fashion, listen, I'm a little afraid to tackle this problem because now ppl on RHP know my nemesis, and from now on I will see nothing but lame closed Sicilians and my rating will drop like fly.
I guess I'll have to donate SEVERAL hours (50 maybe?) to studying closed Sicilian variations, god that sucks, because I spent like 50 hours studying the open ones, now I have to study the closed ones to defend against these lazy ppl who probably don't even know the open ones anyways to begin with.
BTW, I define a Rossolimo as ANY early Bb5 move against a Sicilian. Some GM's agree with that accessment, others, obviously, don't. Anyways, I really hate those openings with early bishop penetrations, threatening a knight to double up pawns (Which is why I hate the Ruy aswell), I am scared crapless of doubled up pawns and I don't see how black has winning chances in these games.
Originally posted by no1marauderArgh, the paradox, the Taimanov is better in open Sicilians, Mr.Draconis or Narjdof is better in closed, this peeves me off, LOL! 😠 BTW, I've had past problems with the Narjdof before, the white knight outpost is very annoying, not threatening, but annoying, so annoying it ruins your concentration on everything else and you simply want to KILL IT.
If you're so concerned about Bb5 doubling pawns, play 2 ...... d6 and aim for either a Najdorf or a Dragon; if those aren't aggressive enougn for you as Black I don't know what would be. If they play 3 Bb5+ (the real Rossolimo) block with the Bishop and when he takes it capture with the Queen and then you can deploy your knight to c6. And if Wh ...[text shortened]... oesn't work that early in the game and the Bishop's on a useless diagonal when White plays d3.
Be7 was bad because it allowed Ne5, that's not 7 moves in the future that's the next move. I wouldn't have seen the tactics coming straight after Be7 however when you allow a knight in the centre like that there are bound to be tactics coming. I'm a more positional player so that just screams pain to me. Also the tactics that come later don't happen without ...Bf6.
Also if you had played ...g6 if Nxd5 is played then exd5 Qd7+ Kf8 Qxd5 (there's no mate and you win a knight for two pawns).
After my suggested ...Nf6 then if e5 then Nd7 and I find that position balanced. Slightly cramped but much less so than if you allow Ne5 to be played.
The plan of a closed Sicilian is for white to take time before commiting to the centre as if it done straight away it leads to the two knights and a contested centre.
Yes you're right you did play ...d5 on the next move however you wasted a move on ...Ba6. That was my gripe with that as in the meantime white prepared the centre with d3 which also made your bishop move useless.
Originally posted by XanthosNZXanthos, I am a positional player aswell, and to be honest, playing g6 after an e6 isn't usually a good idea. The point of e6 is to develop the bishop on that diagonal, by playing g6, and fianchettoing it, you have vulnerable dark squares. Fianchettoing your king's bishop totally annihalates the point of e6 to begin with. As for the Ne5 white move, this is common, I know a lot of newbies who move their knights around forward thinking their all fad, they often use their queen to try little tricks with it, which I usually stop and there's an easy defense, however, in this game, that was not so. I'm thinking it was luck (please don't flame me on this, sometimes you do get lucky), that every natural single queen attack move by white ended up being decisive, it's rare this happens, especially in a closed opening like that.
Be7 was bad because it allowed Ne5, that's not 7 moves in the future that's the next move. I wouldn't have seen the tactics coming straight after Be7 however when you allow a knight in the centre like that there are bound to be tactics coming. I'm a more positional player so that just screams pain to me. Also the tactics that come later don't happen w ...[text shortened]... t as in the meantime white prepared the centre with d3 which also made your bishop move useless.
And where pre-tell, should that bishop go, if not on a6? After his bishop captures my knight, there's a wall of pawns around that bishop of mine, I simply fed it the only diagonal it could breathe, but I suppose you are right, there were more important peices to develop first then the queen's bishop. BTW, I'm not a huge fan of playing e5 myself, that's entering Narjdof territory, and you don't want a fianchettoed king's bishop in a Narjdof as you suggested.
And that's exactly why I hate the closed Sicilian, it's crap, white holds all the cards. As you said, the point of the opening is for WHITE to decide WHEN to hit the center, sorry pal, this is a good reason more then anything to avoid the Sicilian if there is a variation that leads to white making all the decisions. I like to influence the center, be it, not completely control it (that's asking for too much), but decide what gets done there, not my opponent, and if as black I have to wait, wait, wait, wait, WAIT, WAIT AND WAIT, until white may never play d4 until the game gets some spark, then forget about it...
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Finally, a decent suggestion. I was seriously considering that when I looked at 3 games I lost with this variation, for whatever reason, this out of book fad is common. And guess what, I just found a book in my library chess collection that specializes on this variation, but it's a book designed to help white win with it, and it just shows examples were black has no chance! 😠
Why not the try 3..Nd4? In the real Rossilimo, this is considered to be a bit dubious, but I imagine that's due to the fact that white can capture the knight. Here, he can't and you are threatening to take the two bishops...That looks decent to me...
It seems to be a chess experience of mine, to defeat weird openings, you must play weird moves yourself, not common ones. I'm sure there's a reason why Bb5 is considered unsound in such a scenario, and by moving your knight, the same peice twice, to d4, seems to show the best results. It's out of book to move a knight twice so early, but hey, according to my little putter who I have comps running against, this turns out to be the best move.
I am capable of playing tactics, but going for tactics in the opening is stupid IMHO and I just focus on development. Whenever I try cheap tactical shots in the opening, I lose, but my opponents on the other hand, well, I guess they just get really good at it from playing so much blitz. . .