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  1. 21 Oct '05 10:18
    Hello, I have a silly question. I'm starting to study openings, specifically the Rui Lopez (exchange variation).

    Well here is the question: IF the white bishop takes the knight, then the black pawn takes the bishop. But then, why doesnt (in ANY game iv seen), the white knight evertake the center black pawn (KP)?

    Isnt getting the middle an important goal? Wouldnt taking the black center king's pawn free the center considerably?

    Thanks for replying and please forgive my amatureness!
  2. 21 Oct '05 10:32
    Originally posted by soulis
    Hello, I have a silly question. I'm starting to study openings, specifically the Rui Lopez (exchange variation).

    Well here is the question: IF the white bishop takes the knight, then the black pawn takes the bishop. But then, why doesnt (in ANY game iv seen), the white knight evertake the center black pawn (KP)?

    Isnt getting the middle an important go ...[text shortened]... 's pawn free the center considerably?

    Thanks for replying and please forgive my amatureness!
    1.e4 e5
    2. Nf3 Nc6
    3. Bb5 a6
    4. Bxc6 dxc6
    5. Nxe5? Qd4!
    or 5. ...Qg5!

    and black wins the pawn back.
  3. 21 Oct '05 10:36
    Thanks sooo much for the reply, one more additional to that. Even if black wins pawn back, isnt equality still maintained?
  4. Standard member Natural Science
    blunderer of pawns
    21 Oct '05 10:36
    Originally posted by soulis
    Hello, I have a silly question. I'm starting to study openings, specifically the Rui Lopez (exchange variation).

    Well here is the question: IF the white bishop takes the knight, then the black pawn takes the bishop. But then, why doesnt (in ANY game iv seen), the white knight evertake the center black pawn (KP)?

    Isnt getting the middle an important go ...[text shortened]... 's pawn free the center considerably?

    Thanks for replying and please forgive my amatureness!
    White doesn't necessarily want to "free" the center, he wants to control it. And taking the pawn has the opposite effect, because Black just plays Qd4 (or Qe7 if he had recaptured bxc6 a move earlier), wins back the pawn, and now has full equality. What White is actually trying to do in the Exchange Variation, is to steer the middlegame into an endgame where he'll have a healthy 4-3 pawn majority on the kingside, vs. Black's clump of pawns on the queenside.
  5. Standard member Natural Science
    blunderer of pawns
    21 Oct '05 10:37
    Originally posted by soulis
    Thanks sooo much for the reply, one more additional to that. Even if black wins pawn back, isnt equality still maintained?
    Yes, but if you're playing White, why would equality out of the opening be a good thing?
  6. 21 Oct '05 10:39
    Originally posted by soulis
    Thanks sooo much for the reply, one more additional to that. Even if black wins pawn back, isnt equality still maintained?
    Well, black has a comfortable game, and it's sure that white doesn't have an advantage. I thought the point of the Ruy Lopez Exchange was to get a lead in development, but black only has to move his queen's bishop and he can castle already.
    It's equal or a minor advantage for black, because he has the bishop pair.
  7. 21 Oct '05 10:42
    Originally posted by Natural Science
    White doesn't necessarily want to "free" the center, he wants to control it. And taking the pawn has the opposite effect, because Black just plays Qd4 (or Qe7 if he had recaptured bxc6 a move earlier), wins back the pawn, and now has full equality. What White is actually trying to do in the Exchange Variation, is to steer the middlegame into an ...[text shortened]... have a healthy 4-3 pawn majority on the kingside, vs. Black's clump of pawns on the queenside.
    Yes, and with the abovementioned line, black has at least equality (eg after 6.Nf3 Qxe4+ 7.Qe2 Bf5 or even QxQ), and white doesn't achieve the goal of having a healthy kingside pawn majority.
  8. 21 Oct '05 10:43
    Thanks everyone!
  9. Standard member Natural Science
    blunderer of pawns
    21 Oct '05 10:48
    Originally posted by schakuhr
    Well, black has a comfortable game, and it's sure that white doesn't have an advantage. I thought the point of the Ruy Lopez Exchange was to get a lead in development, but black only has to move his queen's bishop and he can castle already.
    It's equal or a minor advantage for black, because he has the bishop pair.
    White certainly doesn't get a lead in development in the Exchange, because all of Black's minor pieces are ready to come out, while White still has to move the d pawn to get his bishop out. White has just one advantage, and that is Black's pawn structure. But it's an endgame advantage, and Black is sure to have an advantage through the middlegame with his two bishops and the half-open d-file. That's why the Exchange is rarely seen in Grandmaster circles these days.
  10. 21 Oct '05 11:00
    Originally posted by Natural Science
    That's why the Exchange is rarely seen in Grandmaster circles these days.
    There is nothing wrong with the exchange variation as such. And it is being playd by GM's. Kasimdzhanov uses it from time to time. And the young Kasparov used to play it too. It is the taking on e5 which is the bad idea.
  11. Standard member Natural Science
    blunderer of pawns
    21 Oct '05 11:47
    Originally posted by Mephisto2
    There is nothing wrong with the exchange variation as such. And it is being playd by GM's. Kasimdzhanov uses it from time to time. And the young Kasparov used to play it too. It is the taking on e5 which is the bad idea.
    Well, maybe "rarely" is a bit of an exaggeration, but it certainly isn't as popular as it once was at the top levels due to its drawish nature. A quick look at the stats available on chesslab.com show only a 32% winning percentage for White, with 40% of the games being drawn.
  12. 29 Nov '05 23:00
    White has a definite long term strategical plan in the Ruy Lopez Exchange variation. Without the pieces but just the pawns (and kings) on the board, you will notice there is a 4 versus 3 pawn majority on the kingside. This will make a creation of a passed pawn much easier than it is on the queenside where there are double pawns on the c file.

    Black has the two bishops and it's objective is to use these pieces to hindered this creation of a passed pawn on the kingside whilst trying to create one on the queenside by eliminating one of the double c-pawns first.
  13. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    29 Nov '05 23:34
    Originally posted by Oddjob291
    White has a definite long term strategical plan in the Ruy Lopez Exchange variation. Without the pieces but just the pawns (and kings) on the board, you will notice there is a 4 versus 3 pawn majority on the kingside. This will make a creation of a passed pawn much easier than it is on the queenside where there are double pawns on the c file.

    Black has ...[text shortened]... ide whilst trying to create one on the queenside by eliminating one of the double c-pawns first.
    Thanks for digging up threads from months ago. Repeatedly.
  14. 29 Nov '05 23:45
    XanthosNZ, only noticed this forum fairly recently and had not had the time to post/contribute/ask for opinions on chess matters as my previous chess forum has gone 'screwy'.

    This looks a decent forum and open to discuss anything chessy.