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  1. Standard member cadwah
    ¯\_(^.^)_/¯
    04 Jan '10 20:44
    We are having a comp in my local pub, we won't be using an arbiter or umpire as it's meant as a bit of fun however I need a bit of clarification regarding using clocks.

    If an illegal move is made and the opponents clock is started what would the normal outcome be? Yes I did look at the FIDE site but I can't decipher that gobbledegook.

    We are under the impression that the opponent can claim the game.
    What if the illegal move isn't spotted until a couple of moves have been played?

    Any ideas as to how you would adjudicate etc etc

    Help much appreciated!

    We are playing for money so serious suggestions only please!
  2. 04 Jan '10 21:07
    As far as I know, you reset the position to before the illegal move was played and restart from that point - with 5 minutes removed from the clock of the illegal mover and added onto the legitimate victim ( although this time rule may have been changed now - it definately does not apply if the clocks have less then 5 minutes remaining).

    If the move is not spotted until after the game then there is nothing you can do about it - I remember a game where I was in a time scramble and moved out of checkmate and my opponent did not see and carried on trying to win it but then after we had put the result in (a draw, due to double flagfall) he realised that actually he could have won... needless to say, I made a hasty retreat before he could try and appeal.
  3. Standard member cadwah
    ¯\_(^.^)_/¯
    04 Jan '10 21:37
    Originally posted by Tyrannosauruschex
    As far as I know, you reset the position to before the illegal move was played and restart from that point - with 5 minutes removed from the clock of the illegal mover and added onto the legitimate victim ( although this time rule may have been changed now - it definately does not apply if the clocks have less then 5 minutes remaining).

    If the ...[text shortened]... lly he could have won... needless to say, I made a hasty retreat before he could try and appeal.
    Ok, so we will be playing 10mins per person, should have clarified that!

    I was really just looking for some input as to how you would run it... should the penalty for an illegal move and subsequent clock tap be a time penalty or should it be a claimed game?
  4. 04 Jan '10 21:44
    Well 10 mins a game is quite fast, almost blitz speed really, so it would be more difficult to have any complicated rules requiring an arbiter and might be easier to just rule that illegal moves lose.

    If you want things to be a little more friendly (I have seen people get VERY angry about losing a game due to some sneaky long range check which is deliberately not called) you could have a rule that the first illegal move gets a warning, second adds 2 minutes to the clock, third one loses the game - that is a fairer system.
  5. Standard member cadwah
    ¯\_(^.^)_/¯
    04 Jan '10 21:51
    Originally posted by Tyrannosauruschex
    Well 10 mins a game is quite fast, almost blitz speed really, so it would be more difficult to have any complicated rules requiring an arbiter and might be easier to just rule that illegal moves lose.

    If you want things to be a little more friendly (I have seen people get VERY angry about losing a game due to some sneaky long range check which ...[text shortened]... warning, second adds 2 minutes to the clock, third one loses the game - that is a fairer system.
    Good call. Cheers
  6. 04 Jan '10 21:54
    The FIDE rules say that an illegal move loses the game in blitz but if you don't call it straight away you lose the chance to claim.

    If the competition is just for fun, I'd say a warning or a 1 minute penalty on the clock for the first offence would be fine.
  7. Standard member cadwah
    ¯\_(^.^)_/¯
    04 Jan '10 22:08
    Originally posted by Schumi
    The FIDE rules say that an illegal move loses the game in blitz but if you don't call it straight away you lose the chance to claim.

    If the competition is just for fun, I'd say a warning or a 1 minute penalty on the clock for the first offence would be fine.
    So if you don't call it straight away and play moves on, what if you mate next move using the illegal move etc etc... would you move play back to the last legal position or how would it work... i'm confused and a little concerned that the people who will be playing may be a little inebriated and not spot stuff.

    I'm leaning towards illegal moves lose instantly but I really don't want to referee all night, it's a pub... I want to get drunk.
  8. 04 Jan '10 22:15
    I wouldnt worry too much - the clock will decide the game even if the position does not, and also most people who are not a halfway decent player would be unlikely to put money on the line ni a chess tournament, so the illegal moves should not be too high.

    Plus, when you tell them at the start about the rules concerning illegal moves, it tends to concentrate peoples minds more when they know there is a penalty.
  9. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    05 Jan '10 03:08
    It's in a pub? Illegal mover buys a round. Everybody wins!
  10. 05 Jan '10 03:14 / 1 edit
    The latest fide rules say that in blitz which is less than 15 minutes you lose with an illegal move if there is less than 1 arbiter per board. That`s the gobbleygook translation of Fide if you don`t wanna decide yourself.
  11. Standard member peacedog
    Highlander
    05 Jan '10 03:23
    Originally posted by cadwah
    but I really don't want to referee all night, it's a pub... I want to get drunk.
    Reminds me of a member of my local club who stopped going. When asked why he said that he had lost his job and could not afford to have a beer(clubnight is held in a bar). It was pointed out to him that you dont have to have a drink. Disgusted he said that it was against his religion to go into a bar and not drink :-)
  12. Standard member Nowakowski
    10. O-O
    05 Jan '10 03:27
    Originally posted by peacedog
    Reminds me of a member of my local club who stopped going. When asked why he said that he had lost his job and could not afford to have a beer(clubnight is held in a bar). It was pointed out to him that you dont have to have a drink. Disgusted he said that it was against his religion to go into a bar and not drink :-)
    Sounds about right.
  13. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    05 Jan '10 03:32
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    It's in a pub? Illegal mover buys a round. Everybody wins!
    That's called thinking it through
  14. 05 Jan '10 03:43
    I think by now both players are passed out and drooling freely.