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  1. 24 Mar '07 18:17 / 1 edit
    I'm interested in learning more about the closed Ruy Lopez. 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O b5 6. Bb3 Be7 7. Re1 d6 8. c3 O-O 9. h3 Re8 10. d4.

    I played a game where I moved my b1 knight all the way over to g3, leading to this position.




    Is this good for white? Where do I go from here? Wikipedia told me tracking the knight over like that is the main objective of white in the closed Ruy, but I can't figure out why. Seems like a waste of 3 moves. Any ever played this before?
  2. 24 Mar '07 18:19 / 1 edit
    oh s*it. Wikipedia teaching chess nowadays?

    sick...

    what comes to your question, yes its good plan to get your knight to g3. there it has more mobility (f5-square) than on c3.
  3. 24 Mar '07 18:22
    Originally posted by allostery
    I'm interested in learning more about the closed Ruy Lopez. 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O b5 6. Bb3 Be7 7. Re1 d6 8. c3 O-O 9. h3 Re8 10. d4.

    I played a game where I moved my b1 knight all the way over to g3, leading to this position.


    [fen]r2qrbk1/1bp2pp1/p1np1n1p/1p6/3PP3/1B3NN1/PP3PPP/R1BQR1K1 b - - 0 1[/fen]

    Is this good ...[text shortened]... Ruy, but I can't figure out why. Seems like a waste of 3 moves. Any ever played this before?
    That looks like one of the positions where Kramnik ended up beating Kasparov. (Kramnik was playing black)
  4. 24 Mar '07 18:26
    in the games i've seen from the gm's they bring the knight to that position as well. theres a lot of theory to the ruy.
  5. 24 Mar '07 18:28
    lol. wikipedia is the next google.

    Anyways...from my experience the knight helps with kingside threats. Also, you gotta protect the e4 pawn, and c3 isn't a good square for it.
  6. 24 Mar '07 18:29
    people describe openings all the time on this site via wikipedia. I'm just using their explanation to open the thread, fully aware that it isn't the greatest teaching tool. good jumping off point though.

    the game I played I ended up just exchanging for his bishop on the f5 square. maybe could've put him to better use, but I was too busy defending the queenside.
  7. 24 Mar '07 18:58
    Originally posted by allostery
    I'm interested in learning more about the closed Ruy Lopez. 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O b5 6. Bb3 Be7 7. Re1 d6 8. c3 O-O 9. h3 Re8 10. d4.

    I played a game where I moved my b1 knight all the way over to g3, leading to this position.


    [fen]r2qrbk1/1bp2pp1/p1np1n1p/1p6/3PP3/1B3NN1/PP3PPP/R1BQR1K1 b - - 0 1[/fen]

    Is this good ...[text shortened]... Ruy, but I can't figure out why. Seems like a waste of 3 moves. Any ever played this before?
    If 9.h3, how did the pawn get back to h2?

    Black should have met d4 with ..Bg4. Also I don't think he should have played ..exd4. Why casually surrender the centre, having spent the first ten moves classically creating it? So normally the c3 square would have a pawn on it, making Nc3 impossible.

    Nc3 in this kind of position looks completely fine to me btw. Often it manouvers to g3 or e3, to hop to f5 and attacking the black king - when, that is, c3 is unavailable. Other times it goes to a3, to attack the b5 pawn after a4. But if c3 is available, I don't see how it can be bad. You might want to buffer it with a3, to protect it from b2-b4 though - unless the hop to d5 is definitely good for white in reply.
  8. 24 Mar '07 23:57
    Originally posted by TommyC
    If 9.h3, how did the pawn get back to h2?

    Black should have met d4 with ..Bg4. Also I don't think he should have played ..exd4. Why casually surrender the centre, having spent the first ten moves classically creating it? So normally the c3 square would have a pawn on it, making Nc3 impossible.

    Nc3 in this kind of position looks completely fine to me btw ...[text shortened]... to protect it from b2-b4 though - unless the hop to d5 is definitely good for white in reply.
    Touche, Tom. I set the board up slightly wrong (unless I DID move h2....) The game continued 10...h6 11.Nd2 Bf8 12.Nf1 exd4 13. cxd4 Bb7 14. Ng3 to get to the displayed board position (+ the h3 pawn of course).

    So, I had already begun the trek before I was able to go to c3 with him. I understand how it could help in defense and in formulating an attack, but the fact that it takes 3 moves is a little disconcerting. And, it left me with a weak queenside. I was a little hasty in later development with my pieces and sac'd both knights up the middle to fend off an impending attack.

    Thanks for posting
  9. 25 Mar '07 02:36 / 1 edit
    The knight is more active on e3 or g3. On c3, the only square it has is d5; on e3 it has both d5 and f5 (or f5 and h5 if its on g3, which may or may not be better, it depends). Not that Nc3 is bad, but having more options could translate into having more threats, which is good. Both knights also control numerous good squares on the king's side, and king side attacks are a common theme of the Ruy.