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  1. 17 Jun '06 13:38
    playing sicilian defence (I in black) I saw 2 strange second moves for white
    the first is the morphy, or the morra-matulovic gambit: I have read on my book that if I capture the pawn, it is better for white (infact I lose the game) [1. e4, c5; 2. d4] can I play 2... e6 for a better game?
    the second is stranger than the first. there isn't on books: 2. e5; I thought on this opening and I think that it isn't good for the white because the pawn is too ahead and no other pawn can protect it. what do you think about it?
  2. 17 Jun '06 13:49
    Originally posted by cx3650
    playing sicilian defence (I in black) I saw 2 strange second moves for white
    the first is the morphy, or the morra-matulovic gambit: I have read on my book that if I capture the pawn, it is better for white (infact I lose the game) [1. e4, c5; 2. d4] can I play 2... e6 for a better game?
    the second is stranger than the first. there isn't on books: 2. e5; I ...[text shortened]... te because the pawn is too ahead and no other pawn can protect it. what do you think about it?
    No, but the Smith-Morra Gambit (1. e4 c5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 bxc3 4. Nxc3) is hard for black to defend over the board (OTB) especially if he's not prepared for it. Instead after 1. e4 c5 2. d4 e6 3. d5 the game has turned into a Benoni-type opening which is usually thought to be slightly better for white.

    1. e4 c5 2. e5?! is indeed dubious for something like the reason you describe. (The e5 pawn can be protected by f4, however.) I doubt there's an out and out refutation, but I imagine 2. ... Nc6 with d6 or d5 to follow will be better for black.
  3. 17 Jun '06 14:10
    benoni is 1.d4, while sicilian is 1.e4, maybe, if I didn't capture 3...exd5, but I moved 3...Qb6, I would a simple play to move all my pieces
  4. 17 Jun '06 14:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by cx3650
    benoni is 1.d4, while sicilian is 1.e4, maybe, if I didn't capture 3...exd5, but I moved 3...Qb6, I would a simple play to move all my pieces
    Benonii are normally arrived at by 1. d4, but not necessarily. For instance, 1. d4 c5 2. d5 e6 would transpose to your line after 3. e4. Equally the Sicilian isn't necessarily reached by 1.e4. For instance, 1. Nf3 c5 2. e4. Although usually it is.
  5. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    17 Jun '06 15:33
    Originally posted by cx3650
    playing sicilian defence (I in black) I saw 2 strange second moves for white
    the first is the morphy, or the morra-matulovic gambit: I have read on my book that if I capture the pawn, it is better for white (infact I lose the game) [1. e4, c5; 2. d4] can I play 2... e6 for a better game?
    the second is stranger than the first. there isn't on books: 2. e5; I ...[text shortened]... te because the pawn is too ahead and no other pawn can protect it. what do you think about it?
    You should definitely man up and take the pawn in the Smith Morra. Here is a good line for black that I use all the time to torture white players:

    1. e4 c5
    2. d4 cd
    3. c3 dc
    4. Nxc3 Nc6
    5. Nf3 d6
    6. Bc4 a6! (Since 6..Nf6? 7. e5! de 8. Qxd8 Nxd8 9. Nb5! is bad)
    7. 0-0 Nf6
    8. Qe2 Bg4! (You get the bishop out before you play e6. Notice how all of blacks move have been to stop the important e5 break for white. If white can't play that he has problems.)
    9. Rd1 e6
    10. Bf4 Qb8! (Black removes the queen from the d-file, once again stopping e5!)

    He is completely fine in this position. He can play moves like Be7, 0-0, Rfc8, and b5, and slowly improve the position of his pieces. If white starts to gang up on the d-pawn by doubling rooks on the d-file, you just play Ne5! at the right moment to shut out white's bishop.
  6. 17 Jun '06 15:43
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    You should definitely man up and take the pawn in the Smith Morra. Here is a good line for black that I use all the time to torture white players:

    1. e4 c5
    2. d4 cd
    3. c3 dc
    4. Nxc3 Nc6
    5. Nf3 d6
    6. Bc4 a6! (Since 6..Nf6? 7. e5! de 8. Qxd8 Nxd8 9. Nb5! is bad)
    7. 0-0 Nf6
    8. Qe2 Bg4! (You get the bishop out before you play e6. Notice how all ...[text shortened]... ubling rooks on the d-file, you just play Ne5! at the right moment to shut out white's bishop.
    Is 8. h3 an improvement then for white?
  7. 17 Jun '06 15:54 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by cx3650
    playing sicilian defence (I in black) I saw 2 strange second moves for white
    the first is the morphy, or the morra-matulovic gambit: I have read on my book that if I capture the pawn, it is better for white (infact I lose the game) [1. e4, c5; 2. d4] can I play 2... e6 for a better game?
    the second is stranger than the first. there isn't on books: 2. e5; I te because the pawn is too ahead and no other pawn can protect it. what do you think about it?
    At 2.d4 var. there is the plan
    1 e4 c5
    2. d4 cxd4
    3. c3 dxc3
    4. Nxc3 Nc6
    5. Nf3 d6
    6. Bc4 e6
    7. O-O a6
    8. Qe2 b5
    9. Bb3 Ra7
    and Rd7 -you may look at Dbs for games at this variation, there is also and 3. ...Nf6 or d4 playing a 2.c3 variation.
    Now 2. e5 seems to be as good as 2.Na3 - newinchess has an articles for it.
    What your opinion for
    1. e4 c5
    2. e5 d6
    3. Nf3 Nc6
    4. Bb5 Bd7
    5. exd6 e6
  8. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    17 Jun '06 16:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by TommyC
    Is 8. h3 an improvement then for white?
    Possibly, but to play a gambit, and then have to resort to moves like 8. h3 is pretty lame. I am sure with that extra move in hand black can probably just play normal chess with ..e6 ..Bd7 and probably ..Qb8 again.

    EDIT: I looked up a game with this variation:

    8. h3 e6 9. Qe2 Be7 10. Rd1 Bd7 11. Bf4 b5 12. Bb3 Qb8 13. e5 (White's only chance because black is probably gonna play ..Ne5 next if allowed) dxe5 14. Nxe5 Nxe5 15. Bxe5 Qb7 (the point of b5 I guess) 16. Bxf6 Bxf6 17. Ne4 Be7 18. Bd5 Bc6!

    Black looks better here too.
  9. 18 Jun '06 12:10
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    Possibly, but to play a gambit, and then have to resort to moves like 8. h3 is pretty lame. I am sure with that extra move in hand black can probably just play normal chess with ..e6 ..Bd7 and probably ..Qb8 again.

    EDIT: I looked up a game with this variation:

    8. h3 e6 9. Qe2 Be7 10. Rd1 Bd7 11. Bf4 b5 12. Bb3 Qb8 13. e5 (White's only chance because b ...[text shortened]... he point of b5 I guess) 16. Bxf6 Bxf6 17. Ne4 Be7 18. Bd5 Bc6!

    Black looks better here too.
    even though it isn't a good opening for the black because he have to defend himself from all the pieces of the white well set I notice that you, with your aggressive line earn a good play.
    however I see that all the black's play is defending the 2 pawns in the center or attacking with them, isn't it?
  10. 18 Jun '06 12:21
    Originally posted by dimis283

    What your opinion for
    1. e4 c5
    2. e5 d6
    3. Nf3 Nc6
    4. Bb5 Bd7
    5. exd6 e6
    it is really a good idea
    the white can neither reply f4 nor exd4 and he only lost time
  11. 18 Jun '06 13:37
    Originally posted by dimis283

    What your opinion for
    1. e4 c5
    2. e5 d6
    3. Nf3 Nc6
    4. Bb5 Bd7
    5. exd6 e6
    Presumably if white plays 2. e5 he does not wish to exchange his vulnerable-but-cramping pawn quite so easily. 5. Qe2 maybe could be tried instead, or the probably-dubious pawn sacrifice 5. Bxc6 Bxc6 6. e6. (This idea would work better in positions where white retained his light squared bishop.)

    If you want to play a cramping e5 line against the Sicilian, the best way to do it is probably to delay the idea until after 1. e5 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5xc6, when the pawn can possibly be maintained on e5. I tried this once in an OTB game against a stronger opponent; he soon went ...f6 and my centre crumbled anyway, but I don't think the idea is necessarily kaput. Here is a classic miniature featuring a spectacular example along similar but slightly different lines:

    Rossolimo - Romanenko, Bad Gastein 1948, ECO B31.

    1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 g6 4. O-O Bg7 5. Re1 Nf6 6. Nc3 Nd4 7. e5 Ng8 8. d3 Nxb5 9. Nxb5 a6 10. Nd6+! exd6?? 11. Bg5 Qa5 12. exd6+ Kf8 13. Re8+!! Kxe8 14. Qe2+ Kf8 15. Be7+ Ke8 16. Bd8+! Kxd8 17. Ng5 1-0.

    (Note that white has to employ a different combination after the alternative defence 11. ... Qb6, viz 12. exd6+ Kf8 13. Re8+!! Kxe8 14. Qe2+ Kf8 15. Be7+ Ke8 16. Re1!, because 16. Bd8+? Kxd8 17. Ng5 is met by 17. ...Qxd6! Symmetrically, 16. Re1 in the game would have allowed 16. ... Qxe1+!)
  12. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    18 Jun '06 20:23
    Originally posted by cx3650
    even though it isn't a good opening for the black because he have to defend himself from all the pieces of the white well set I notice that you, with your aggressive line earn a good play.
    however I see that all the black's play is defending the 2 pawns in the center or attacking with them, isn't it?
    Well here is the thing. You are up a pawn, so yes, you will have to defend and try to neutralize white's piece play. If you do, which I think is pretty easy with the ..Bg4 lines, you are just winning or near it, and white has to fight for a draw. So it's certainly worth defending up to move 20 or so if after that you will be better.
  13. 18 Jun '06 20:37
    I've found e5 quite a lot on ICC. It seems there are a lot of really crappy guest players as I meet the most idiotic opening moves. Against e5, I have naturally played Nc6 usually followed by a fianchetto and then d6. I've never lost a game this way.
  14. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    19 Jun '06 01:11
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    I've found e5 quite a lot on ICC. It seems there are a lot of really crappy guest players as I meet the most idiotic opening moves. Against e5, I have naturally played Nc6 usually followed by a fianchetto and then d6. I've never lost a game this way.
    I've met the same crap on ICC, and I meet it the same way, sometimes with or without ..g6 and ..Bg7.