Originally posted by moteutschNf3 doesn't work,no: 17.Nf3,Nxf3+ 18.Bxf3,Re5! is even simpler.
I think it is correct: 16. gxh3 Qxh3 17. Nf3 Ng5 and white cannot seem to stop Re3, Rg3, Nxe3+ etc.
Maybe a Re1,Bf1 maneuver works for White?Black's pieces seem to lack entry points.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 07
- Moves
- 27653
Originally posted by moteutschMy first thought was 16 gxh3, Qxh3 17 Bf3 with the idea of Bg2 and Qf3 to follow. Then the rook lift isn't so easy for black becomes white's knight still controls e6.
I think it is correct: 16. gxh3 Qxh3 17. Nf3 Ng5 and white cannot seem to stop Re3, Rg3, Nxe3+ etc.
Originally posted by ErekoseBut then 17....,Re6 anyway 18.Nxe6?,Nxf3+! costs the queen.
My first thought was 16 gxh3, Qxh3 17 Bf3 with the idea of Bg2 and Qf3 to follow. Then the rook lift isn't so easy for black becomes white's knight still controls e6.
18.Bg2,Rg6 is obviously no better
Originally posted by RomanticusYou are incorrect. 17.Nf3 Nxf3+ 18.Bxf3 Re5 19. Bg4 Rg6 20. f3 Qg3+ is a draw.
Nf3 doesn't work,no: 17.Nf3,Nxf3+ 18.Bxf3,Re5! is even simpler.
Maybe a Re1,Bf1 maneuver works for White?Black's pieces seem to lack entry points.
My variation (above) wins.
Originally posted by SophyYes,as I mentioned at the beginning I think that defends.
I am not sure it is quite sound.
But since normal defense via f3 doesn't work, we will have to defend from other means.
16 Re1, (Ff1 to follow) c5 17. Ff1 Qh4 18. Nf3... look like white escaped with a good game.
So I tried a different route for Black: 16...,c5 followed by 17....,Qxh3 difficult line and I caved,shame on me,and checked it with Fritz.So I must refrain from further participation in this thread.
Sound or not the sac is worth a try.Well played 🙂
Originally posted by RomanticusThat's what Fritz 9 suggests - white has time for 17.Re1! followed by Bf1, pushing the enemy Q back and getting a defensive piece in front of the King. On 17...c5 18.Bf1 Qh6 19.Nf3 and black doesn't get the Rook lift in fast enough.
Maybe a Re1,Bf1 maneuver works for White?
We just have to be ready for the endgame.
One thing sure, we cannot take the pawn right away and we must be able to use the rook lift
After gxh3. We must remove the knight from its post in order to advance.
So yep, we should c5 before Qxh3 16... c5 17 Nf3. Qxh3. (now we can sue the rook lift. White should not take the knight as the rook take back . for exemple. 1 Nxe5, Rxe5 2 f4 Qg3+ 3 Kh1 Re6 4 Bh5 Rh6 5 Qf3 Qxf3 6 Rxf3 Rxh5, (white lost his extra pieces, he is down two pawn. ) So will continue white 18 Ng5... Qh4 19 f4. (white can follow with something like this, ( 1... f6 2. Kg2 fxg5 3. Rh1. trapping the queen. ) Qg3 + 19 Rh1. ( This phase is important. as white want to put his queen on e1 as soon as possible. 19... Re6 And we leave white with nothing better then a draw. If he doesn't take the rook, he will lose. So 20. Nxe6 Qh3+ Draw by Infinite check.
I think the best line for black after the sacrifice is 15... Bxh3 16. gxh3 c5 17. Nf3 Qxh5 18. Ng5 Qh4 19 f4 Qg3+ 20. Kh1 Re6 21. Nxe6 Qh38+ Draw.
I wonder if we can prepare this sac.
finally, I think it is sound, since you have a Draw in the bag.
Originally posted by SophyIt isn't sound if you were better and you forced a draw.
We just have to be ready for the endgame.
One thing sure, we cannot take the pawn right away and we must be able to use the rook lift
After gxh3. We must remove the knight from its post in order to advance.
So yep, we should c5 before Qxh3 16... c5 17 Nf3. Qxh3. (now we can sue the rook lift. White should not take the knight as the rook take back . ...[text shortened]... if we can prepare this sac.
finally, I think it is sound, since you have a Draw in the bag.
Doesn't mean it wasn't a good move though. 😉