Spotting a cheat move/game?

Originally posted by sh76
Now that you bring that up... I was always wondering. How could the computer have cheated? Used another computer? Used a human move when the whole point was that the computer was supposed to be better than any human? I don't get it.

The story goes that IBM paid a secret group of masters to play for the computer to make it look like the machine was really strong.

Originally posted by sh76
Now that you bring that up... I was always wondering. How could the computer have cheated? Used another computer? Used a human move when the whole point was that the computer was supposed to be better than any human? I don't get it.

I believe Kasparov claimed the move was made by a human,yes.I think in those matches there's a team of strong human GM's assisting the program.Not sure how they assist.Maybe alter it's opening book or improve it's evaluation of certain positions.Am I correct in this?
Anyway,the way I understood it,it can be proven it was indeed the engine making the move by some sort of print outs.Kasparov requested to see these but the request was denied.

That's how I remember the whole story anyway.

Originally posted by Tyrannosauruschex
The story goes that IBM paid a secret group of masters to play for the computer to make it look like the machine was really strong.

Okay, but Kasparov was the best in the World at the time. Why did he lose if he was playing against proxies for other masters?

Originally posted by lausey
I feel a little skeptical about this though, because there could be some other reason why the strong player might want to end the game quickly.

If a strong player (2000+) playing a weak player (1000-) wants to end the game quickly (I am inclined to say just blitz it because he will win) offer a draw before the rating calculation sets in and get your hand bitten off.

This example is a serious example of a "typical" engine move that would not be made by any serious player.

In fact I have one game that ended in a similar sort of way against a player who many suspected (but was never banned so shall be nameless for the time being) and who was rated at 2300+ at that time.

Originally posted by sh76
Okay, but Kasparov was the best in the World at the time. Why did he lose if he was playing against proxies for other masters?

With a team of players checking each others moves, there would far less likely be the same mistakes made as there would be if kasparov was playing any single one of them. That, and they were having their moved blunderchecked by, what was then, the best computer available.
I think he did win some games in that match too, but lost out overall.

Yasser Seirawan was on the IBM team...and he has beaten both Karpov and Kasparov OTB...however he denies there was any wrong doing. The Kasparov team were extremely paranoid and suspected there conversations were being bugged and so on. I expect this would have had a draining effect on his energy...something that cannot effect a computer.

Originally posted by sh76
Okay, but Kasparov was the best in the World at the time. Why did he lose if he was playing against proxies for other masters?

There's a documentary about it called "Game Over: Kasparov vs. The Machine".

Computers certainly used to play characterically computer-like moves, especially ones which involved gobbling up material but left them strategically weaker. Poor computers/programmes like the one on my phone still do it.

Kasparov felt sure that in game 2 of their 1997 match...

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070913

...Deep Blue would play 37. Qb6, which he thought was the computer-like move. When it didn't he became paranoid, lost it mentally and went on to lose the match. In game 2 he apparently resigned in drawn position.

My understanding is that in regular correspondence chess computer use is permitted (not here at RHP of course, but that's another story). I would imagine the top CC players are all centaurs these days.

A single move led me to suspect tension84 - 35...b6 in Game 2971122. You'd only play this move if you had forseen the spetacular 39...Bg6!!, which in my opinion is beyond the capabilities of most (but not all) ordinary masters. Computers, on the other hand...

See Black has been banned - If you want an example of a typical
computer move (I believe is there such a thing and any seasoned
player should be able to spot one)

33...Qa8 what is that all about? What human would play that?

Originally posted by DawgHaus
A single move led me to suspect tension84 - 35...b6 in Game 2971122. You'd only play this move if you had forseen the spetacular 39...Bg6!!, which in my opinion is beyond the capabilities of most (but not all) ordinary masters. Computers, on the other hand...

Well I didn't see it coming... that means I'm not even an ordinary master...

I don't mind playing against an engine. It have weaknesses. Play a closed game: a strategic game not a tactical game. Let it take b2 a ''poisoned pawn''. Help it to play h6 or other weaknesses move for the King. Think long term, not just the next move.

Originally posted by DawgHaus
A single move led me to suspect tension84 - 35...b6 in Game 2971122. You'd only play this move if you had forseen the spetacular 39...Bg6!!, which in my opinion is beyond the capabilities of most (but not all) ordinary masters. Computers, on the other hand...

I suspected him when he played Kh8, Bf8 and Bf7: non natural moves for me. But I played a good game. I'm proud even if I lost. And that was a year ago! I think I play better now.

Originally posted by backfrom1994
I don't mind playing against an engine. It have weaknesses. Play a closed game: a strategic game not a tactical game. Let it take b2 a ''poisoned pawn''. Help it to play h6 or other weaknesses move for the King. Think long term, not just the next move.

Good advice - excellent infact.

But I think you would like to know in advance it was computer you
were playing and not a human.

Just curious now - what happened after this joker was banned
did you get back the rating points?

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Good advice - excellent infact.

But I think you would like to know in advance it was computer you
were playing and not a human.

Just curious now - what happened after this joker was banned
did you get back the rating points?

No I didn't get my points but he was banned before the second round of the 2007 Championship started so I was last minute admited in the secound round!

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Good advice - excellent infact.

But I think you would like to know in advance it was computer you
were playing and not a human.

Just curious now - what happened after this joker was banned
did you get back the rating points?

Before playing someone 2000+, I look at his graph, check some games he won over big player, some he lost over weak player, how many games in progress, etc.. to have an idea who I'm going to play with. Sometime I know before starting a game I'm playing against a computer...