Steinitz Attack

Originally posted by MISTER CHESS
Another 1300 dogma follower. There is more to openings than just a lead in developmen. In this case black can't do anything threatening and his development will be cramped unless he makes some freeing pawn moves. I will gain that lead back since my development is easy and natural, my pieces finding good squares. Another thing of note is that bringing a piece off the back row and developing it are two dif things.

after 3...Bxd6 you've simply given the first move to black.

Originally posted by Eladar
[b]Wow. After white plays d4 black will have a hard time playing e5 keeping his bishop trapped in while white has all open lines.

I don't see it since I play the queenside fianchetto. I'd absolutely love a wide open center like that. But if believe the bishop needs to be on the c8-h3 diagonal, then I can see where you have a point.[/b]

One, you castle kingside and I'm attacking there, your bishop is not good. Two, it takes two moves to develop you bishop on b7 giving up your precious "lead in development" to put your bishop on a useless square. I would also like to point out that the d6 bishop will likely have to move again since d6 is hardly its best square so you will in essence be behind in development if you choose to fianchetto.

Originally posted by philidor position
after 3...Bxd6 you've simply given the first move to black.

Hardly. I pointed out it my previous post that d6 is not the best square for the bishop so it will have to move again anyway. I also pointed out earlier that I will have a superior pawn center after 4.d4.

Originally posted by MISTER CHESS
One, you castle kingside and I'm attacking there, your bishop is not good. Two, it takes two moves to develop you bishop on b7 giving up your precious "lead in development" to put your bishop on a useless square.

No, all it takes is one pawn move to develop the bishop to b7. After you make your move d4 and a person was to play b6, the board would look like this:



Black is still +1 in development.

The bishop on b7 with such a wide open diagonal isn't exactly bad.

Originally posted by Eladar
No, all it takes is one pawn move to develop the bishop to b7. After you make your move d4 and a person was to play b6, the board would look like this:

[fen]rnbqk1nr/p1p2ppp/1p1bp3/8/3P4/8/PPP2PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 5[/fen]

Black is still +1 in development.

The bishop on b7 with such a wide open diagonal isn't exactly bad.

I can gain my move back tactically now, although it breaks another opening principal. 5.Qg4 or 5.Qf3 c6 6.Nc3 Bb7 7.Nb5 Be7 8.Bf4

I don't want to play an entire game here. I'm just pointing out the inherent flaws of the opening. For every give there is a take.

As for the move given, I think either Qf6 or Nf6 would be good replies. If you take the pawn on g6 after Nf6, you've just helped develop the h8 rook and you shouldn't 0-0.

Originally posted by Eladar
I don't want to play an entire game here. I'm just pointing out the inherent flaws of the opening. For every give there is a take.

As for the move given, I think either Qf6 or Nf6 would be good replies. If you take the pawn on g6 after Nf6, you've just helped develop the h8 rook and you shouldn't 0-0.

...Nf6 is bad because after Qxg7 ...Rg8 Qa6 I'm threatening to pin and win your loose night and it can't move or else the h pawn falls. ...Qf6 loses time to Bg5. edit plus I don't 0-0 in this opening, I always go the other way and attack the kingside.

Qa6 is a pretty neat trick.

In any case, I think you meant Qh6, which black could reply Rg6, or I suppose a few other moves.

In any case, I don't think your position as as great as you think it is. I think that if you played a good enough player, you'd still lose this game.

As I believe I said in my original post, the opening isn't everything. Just because you give something up in the opening that's far from saying the game is lost.

Actually I have another blitz game I played in my database where this was played.

You mean white won a game after the first few moves we've discussed? I guess I've been refuted. 😲

Originally posted by Eladar
Qa6 is a pretty neat trick.

In any case, I think you meant Qh6, which black could reply Rg6, or I suppose a few other moves.

In any case, I don't think your position as as great as you think it is. I think that if you played a good enough player, you'd still lose this game.

As I believe I said in my original post, the opening isn't everything. Just because you give something up in the opening that's far from saying the game is lost.

I never said that the opening is objectively best. I said that its not bad like you are saying and I've beaten fairly strong players with it. The opponent in the first game is no slouch, 2432 on chess.com which is like 2100-2200 here and the second they were slightly weaker. Their main problem was writing the opening off in the beginning like you thus their danger beacons were in the off mode the whole game.

It looks like Nf6 is the proper next move after d4. I just did a database search on the internet and it gives black a 11 to 2 advantage after 4.Nf6.

Here's a link to the games I found: http://www.chessopeningsdatabase.com/9/e4,e6,e5,d6,exd6,Bxd6,d4,Nf6,/Chess-Openings-Database.htm


It may be a bad data base. I just found it one day while doing a search.

Man, I can't believe I read this, can't you just and analyse what is going on, you just answer everysingle fact given at you and deny them all.


the pawn at d4 is maybe more advanced then the pawn at e6, but black will just develop, now he play with two player on the ice, and you have no many thing, and no you are no crushing black. Don,t reply to that, because, I know something.

You are arrogeant, really, stop looking at board for 5 second and analysed like a man, as position may look like lost, but in fact, is not lost, this is why we take time to play a game of chess and you winning with it does not make it great.

You don't take enough time to see things. And yes Qf6 and Nf6 are good. ...

ON Qf6, Bg5. now black is not bad, he can go with Nh6 or Qg6 , in both, white is slightly worse.

What send, does it make for white to move the same pawn three time, and in the end, we just trade a pawn.

Look like a pirc.. where that happen.

1, e4 d6.
2. e5. ( Please, don't take my pawn.) Black ( okay, he play e6. )
3. exd6 ( use the bishop. forced) Black ( right on, thank pal )

where is the sense in that.


Transposition to the advance or f4 would be so better the taking en passant.


Anf yeah, about 4.b6


This like 4,Nf6. or n4.nc6 make black good.



iAnd you say you'll attack king side if you castle, but if it were me, i'll always attack kingside in the advance variation, the pawn structure is calling for that. but there...... d4 and e5. more space kingside.


So please, do us a favor and stop putting all we say to garbage.

was like that before, I tried to convince my friend who were worst then me with fast picked argument so they believe me, but I onLy end up in making them lose more game.

And f4 look so playable....

Originally posted by AudreyxSophie
Man, I can't believe I read this, can't you just and analyse what is going on, you just answer everysingle fact given at you and deny them all.


the pawn at d4 is maybe more advanced then the pawn at e6, but black will just develop, now he play with two player on the ice, and you have no many thing, and no you are no crushing black. Don,t reply to ...[text shortened]... elieve me, but I onLy end up in making them lose more game.

And f4 look so playable....

No comment as you have misrepresented me.

I do not misunderstood you, I can perfectly understand what you mean by ( After Qf6, Bg5 and black lose time. ) You are saying black is not better, but you are too fast to jugde this. These are the same kind of commet I heard from some grandmaster.

A master played with said about that line. 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. Bc4 Bg7 5.Qe2 0-0.


Now he said that is bad, because, after, e5. Nd7 e6, fxe6 Bxe6+. black will be attacked. and white king is no danger right away.

I told him to stop, stop analysing the board as you are racing, you are not doing the race top see who analyse the fastest. Black is far from dead, and there is still game to play, (yeah, I told him to shut up. ) I knew what he meant, but at that time, his word has no sens, it was just word from someone who, a little later, we found a position black had an advantage, and he never grew out of it. Altrought I lost the game, I knew that there, I was doing better, I lost because of an error, I was not lose at that moment.

I do not misrepresent you, I simply show that you are doing a wrong analysis, Look at your own opiniong.

Originally posted by MISTER CHESS
...Nf6 is bad because after Qxg7 ...Rg8 Qa6 I'm threatening to pin and win your loose night and it can't move or else the h pawn falls. ...Qf6 loses time to Bg5. edit plus I don't 0-0 in this opening, I always go the other way and attack the kingside.

Right, the knight is not loose, it is protected by the queen, and black can kick the white queen by Rg6... and the knight is not pinned by anything. there is no bishop at g5 right now,,, black move. come on.

And there is your reply to Qf6, come on, stop sticking to your opening and be respectfull, you will see, that you opening is not logical, you are giving a small advantage to black, I do not say it win right away, but that small advantage do not belong to black

I see you don't care about opening, perfect, well, it is still important. You may be good, but you are no god. so please, sotp being the almighty great master who is always right, that is not you.

But as I can see, I jump into a debate into nothing.
Man