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  1. 19 Aug '12 20:41
    A very brief tribute to this great chess player.

    One game and 6 positions from Gligoric's games to solve.
    2 RHP games played with the same opening (an Albin Counter) as Gligoric's game.

    Blog 4
  2. Standard member TimmyBx
    TacticsTime.com
    20 Aug '12 02:18
    Very excellent post!

    I looked up the second tactic, and the game score and final combination is slight different in the chessbase mega database:



    White does not have his rooks doubled on the f file, and instead uses a bishop move at the end. Also the game took place in 1968 (not 1969) according to my database.
  3. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    20 Aug '12 06:24
    Originally posted by TimmyBx
    Very excellent post!

    I looked up the second tactic, and the game score and final combination is slight different in the chessbase mega database:

    [pgn][Event "Hastings 6869"]
    [Site "Hastings"]
    [Date "1968.??.??"]
    [Round "5"]
    [White "Gligoric, Svetozar"]
    [Black "Persitz, Raaphi"]
    [Result "1-0"]
    [ECO "E58"]
    [PlyCount "78"]
    [EventDate "1968.12.??" ...[text shortened]... o the game took place in 1968 (not 1969) according to my database.
    You have 39.Qf8 but you must mean 39.Bf8 because you say he made a bishop move at the end and 39.Qf8 would lose the Queen.
  4. 20 Aug '12 10:57 / 1 edit
    Hi Tim.

    How odd. This is my source game.

    I picked it up along with thousands of GM games ages ago from a site
    that gave all the games from Morphy to Kasparov when I was wanting a
    data base just of the good guys games without all the chaff that Megabase supplies.

    I'm wondering if one line is analysis and became the main line.
    (I don't trust megabase - they have a few games of mine listed under
    some other bod.) and quite a few games in the INFORMATOR CD are not on
    Mega Base (the INF CD - every Inf game from INf 1 to Inf 100 cost £99.00
    maybe that is why.)

    Wike (again not to be trusted) gives your game.
    I'll check CHESS or BCM to see what they say. I'll try to find that oroginal
    site it listed every strong player in the history of the game.

    Gligoric - Persitz Hastings, 1969

  5. 20 Aug '12 13:58 / 3 edits
    Cannot seem to get a link anymore og the site with all the GM games.
    I'm 99% sure it was the University of Pittsburgh Chess site which I have
    not visited for years but at one time it was one of the best.

    Our dates differ, you 1968 - me 1969 but that often happens with
    games from Hastings as the tournament starts in one year and finishes in the next.

    The Informator CD has the game giving the exact same game I have given
    with double Rooks on the f-file. It has notes by Maric.

    The Informator was published in Yougoslavia, one of it's Editors was
    Aleksandar Matanovic....Gligoric was Yugoslavian....I think I'll trust my source.

    Edward Winter oftens spots the same game with a different score usually
    leading to the same combo. Here they differ and the final combo though
    the same theme is different.

    Games before the electronic age (and even not now) are not to be trusted.
    They were put in by a human and sometimes the human plays what he would
    have played or miss-reads the score.
    Having entered tousands of games into the Chess Scotland DB I sympathise
    with that - some score sheets are awful.
    For an example see here.

    http://www.chessedinburgh.co.uk/chandlerarticle.php?ChandID=118

    Megabase has this game. It was me who played it. They have a about 8 of
    mine listed with this lad. (I don't mind - most are losses.)

    Connor Woods- Guy Wills Chandler, Edinburgh Premier 2007

    Typical me game, I'm getting gubbed, sac the exchange, White losses the thread
    of the game, I sneak in.
    Watch all the fannying around I do with my Knight till it got chopped on move 25.
    I think it confused both of us.

  6. 20 Aug '12 14:02 / 1 edit
    Hastings always starts at the very end of the year and continues until early the next year. In databases it's usually referred to by the year it started, so "Hastings 1968" in this case, though "Hastings 1968/9" and "Hastings 1968/69" are both acceptable as well. Rather confusingly, this game will have been played in early January 1969.

    As for the game itself, in Gligoric's own book, Play the Nimzo-Indian Defence, he gives a version which is consistent with Greenpawn's finish (edit: in fact exactly the same moves as Greenpawn gave!)
    (see http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/gallicrow/chess/Gligoric-Persitz.jpg for a scan of the relevant pages of the book).
  7. 20 Aug '12 14:39
    Greenpawn: 1 Chessbase: 0

    Thanks Fat Lady (and Timmy for spotting it) I don't have a copy of the book.
    (I don't play 1.d4 I don't play the Nimzo Indian.)

    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/gallicrow/chess/Gligoric-Persitz.jpg
  8. 20 Aug '12 14:55
    Forgot to mention something about the Connor Woods game.

    Connor along with about 10 other player's train was held up coming to Edinburgh.
    He arrived 40 minutes late.

    I told him it was OK go and relax and after he played 1.e4 I waited 40 minutes
    before playing 1...e6. (that was some long think!).
    That will explain some of the moves as we had to make (if memory serves)
    40 in two hours and we had already given the clock 40 mins each.
  9. Standard member TimmyBx
    TacticsTime.com
    20 Aug '12 14:57
    This debate isn't over until The Fat Lady has sung! ... oh wait, nevermind

    The chessbase version is a pretty interesting combo at the end too - similar battery, and move with Qf7+, but then the bishop does an interference move, forcing black to give up major material.

    Good stuff!
  10. Standard member TimmyBx
    TacticsTime.com
    20 Aug '12 14:59
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You have 39.Qf8 but you must mean 39.Bf8 because you say he made a bishop move at the end and 39.Qf8 would lose the Queen.
    yes it was 39. Bf8, then black resigned in the chessbase version - I think I pasted in a variation that I was looking at, and you are right - 39. Qf8 doesn't work.
  11. 20 Aug '12 15:21
    It seems like RJ is the only paying attention, he spotted a gaff on the blog as well.

    In another thread he said he had never heard of Gligoric or seen any of his wins.
    Well he has now!
  12. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    20 Aug '12 16:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Fat Lady
    Hastings always starts at the very end of the year and continues until early the next year. In databases it's usually referred to by the year it started, so "Hastings 1968" in this case, though "Hastings 1968/9" and "Hastings 1968/69" are both acceptable as well. Rather confusingly, this game will have been played in early January 1969.

    As for the game i 177/gallicrow/chess/Gligoric-Persitz.jpg for a scan of the relevant pages of the book).
    I bought the book at a "seconds" book store for $6.98. I wasn't interested in the Nimzo per se, but I played through it because it was a book of annotated games by Gligoric.

    Nimzo theory is only part of what I learned. When great GMs write, even small comments can have profound learnings embedded in them.

    Very often, books full of excellently annotated games by great (or even good) players are dismissed simply because they are "opening books".
  13. 20 Aug '12 20:07
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    A very brief tribute to this great chess player.

    One game and 6 positions from Gligoric's games to solve.
    2 RHP games played with the same opening (an Albin Counter) as Gligoric's game.

    Blog 4
    Here's another Chessbase memorial article about Svetozar Gligoric:
    http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8420
  14. 21 Aug '12 02:01
    Hi Paul

    If I had seen or see a copy of this in a 2nd hand shop I would buy it.
    At least you know with Gligoric on the cover you will get Gligoric inside.
    Which is not always the case, often a name is added for the bite
    and the name never had no part in writing the book.

    And the format of complete games in the Gligoric book is OK.

    It's the junk informator style of books with practically no words
    or books that dump you with += after 10 moves.
    They are useless as is MCO and BCO and all the CO's.

    http://www.chessville.com/GC/All_opening_books_are_a_ripoff.htm

    I've learned more from best games colllections (and opening traps).
    Marshall, Alekhine, Blackburne, Spielmann and Tarrasch I know pushed me up.
    Especially Tarrasch.

    Fischer's 60 just a wee tiny bit - I read it far too soon.
    I infact went through it before any of the the others.

    I cannot recall any opening book that gave me anything except lines
    to memorise that I cannot forget.

    Actually Chessville are at me to do another rant. Let's see.

    I've done Opening books, computers, the += symbols, women (twice)
    Tournament reports, being a team captain.....Endgame books - I've not
    done endgame books. - watch this space for a link.
  15. 21 Aug '12 12:33
    Hi Duchess.

    I've seen the Chessbase one, pity they had to stick a dirty big advert on it.

    Here is another:

    http://www.e-novine.com/drustvo/69961-sahrani-velemajstora.html

    It's RHP's vandervelde tribute to Gligoric. Link posted with his permission.

    I cannot read it, but perhaps some lad can do a translation.
    The pictures and layout look intriguing.