Originally posted by WeadleyPossibly. Bowmann's a good player, didn't finish the last ones so I dunno. He'll never play me again though so oh well 😛. Also, to bowmann, you would've lost points in those games no matter what, no matter if you would've won or not cause you were provisional and I doubt you'd finish enough games by the time we'd finish.
My money would be on Galaxy, in bowmann vs Galaxy.
Also... Hahahhaha bowmann way to go on whippin up on Darvlay!
I'm someone that never understood the opening for white, many times I ask, "what is his strategy/plan?" when it comes to the English, and often, I find none, it seems like subtle/waiting opening were white places his peices nicely and in compact, waiting for black to respond badly perhabs?
Anyways, I think I know why people play it, Arrakis is right, e5 is pretty bad, d4 too I find, however, against c4, white gives black full equality, on move one, if black responds with c5! This is actually the main line, and it's the main line for a reason, because it's simply the best/equality for black. Basicly, the idea for black is to copy whites moves as long as possible to = equality. Called the symetrical variation. You can see why it's not popular, many chess savants are appaled with the idea of copying their opponents moves, so on move 1, they play inferior openings, and to be honest, it's a shame, as it's uneccessary, they are throwing away good chances to get the much needed 1/2 (with 1 point always a possibility in any equal game) with the black peices in big tournaments all for the sake of entertainment.
This leads me to beleive that Fischer was wrong. If an opening allows black full equality by doing something unoriginal as copying, how good can it be? (yes, white has the first move, but surprisingly, it doesn't make much difference) My "symmetrical" defense against the English is reason enough for me to turn away from it as white. Maybe Fischer was right in the humane aspect, as humans seldomly copy, even if it is the best moves. I guess c4 is just annoying to the chess human race, and that is it's power maybe? 😕 Have any English players seen their opponents react badly when 1.c4 is played? Just curious.
Originally posted by GalaxyShieldYou challenged me. 'Seriously.' You boasted for almost an entire thread about how you were certain I would lose to you. Your supporters rooted for you and cried out for me to accept your public challenge. In the end, I agreed to play.
Yes you annoying loser, now get over that and move on instead of dwelling on something stupid. Seriously.
We started TWO games, made a few moves in each until you reached inferior positions. Then you abandoned both games.
I never boasted, other people were saying I could beat you, not me. I knew you were a good player and that's why I wanted to play you. And I didn't leave because I blundered away a piece. If we would've finished the games, and if I were to lose, I would've congradulated you on the wins and move on. Instead, we didn't finish the games and you haven't moved on. If you want to beat me for real than play me. Just stop complaining about it.
Originally posted by UmalakasActually, you're wrong on all points:
I'm someone that never understood the opening for white, many times I ask, "what is his strategy/plan?" when it comes to the English, and often, I find none, it seems like subtle/waiting opening were white places his peices nicely and in compact, waiting for black to respond badly perhabs?
Anyways, I think I know why people play it, Arrakis is right, ...[text shortened]... 😕 Have any English players seen their opponents react badly when 1.c4 is played? Just curious.
a) The english opening isn't just a waiting move; it discourages ...d5 (a big point), planning to control the center from the sides, often with the fianchetto of one or both bishops. There's also a logical problem of the idea that 1.c4 is a waiting move : if it was, then the Sicilian defense would be absolutely awful (and it most definitely isn't), since black doesn't have a tempo to waste.
b) e5 is not bad at all, but actually a pretty reasonable defense to the English. Maybe your reasoning is that the Sicilian scores best for black, so a reversed Sicilian ought to be awful for black, a tempo down? Not so. For one, white has to tip his hand earlier, so black has time to react. The other factor is that, in the Sicilian, white's best try for an advantage is the agressive lines, but white can also be guaranteed at least equality by playing less actively (i.e. the Alapin variation). In the reversed Sicilian, black is pretty much denied the ultra agressive lines, but the less active lines are still very playable. I think statistically, white wins only 6% more than black, which isn't bad at all.
c) 1...c5 is 1) not the main line, and 2) not necessarily equal. You probably have only seen games where white does not know to break the center with d4 at some point. When white plays this, the line can resemble (or transpose into) a Maroczy Bind setup against the Sicilian, and white still gets to keep his opening advantage. Not to say ...c5 is bad, though.
d) If the English really was "just annoying to the human race," You don't think it would be so popular, even among GMs, would you 😉?
Originally posted by UmalakasI have seen serveral people "respond badly" I suppose. It's usually just a moment of confusion as they are not familiar with the English.
I'm someone that never understood the opening for white, many times I ask, "what is his strategy/plan?" when it comes to the English, and often, I find none, it seems like subtle/waiting opening were white places his peices nicely and in compact, waiting for black to respond badly perhabs?
Anyways, I think I know why people play it, Arrakis is right, ...[text shortened]... 😕 Have any English players seen their opponents react badly when 1.c4 is played? Just curious.
As for it not being a strong opening, I would have to disagree. It's been played routinely by some of the top players (Karpov, Korchnoi, Sierawan, etc) with good success. A quick look at it's statistics shows:
White wins: 39%
Draw: 43%
Black wins: 18%
That's pretty darn good for an opening at that skill level.
As for responses, there are actually serveral widely accepted responses to it:
-c5 (as you pointed out), the symmetrical line. While black remains even and it is considered solid, it tends to lead to a closed middle game and ulitmately a drawish game. Therefore, many people steer away from this line. I find this line rather boring.
-e5, reversed Sicilian line. I think this would be considered the more popular line. Both sides come into the middle game even. I find this often becomes a game where both sides build around the center then quickly explodes into an open games when the center pawns are traded.
-e6, hedgehog line. Can quickly transpose the English into a Queen's Gambit or a Four Knights variation, but usually leads to a more open game with quick development and early attacks.
So, there you have it. A tried and tested opening that gives white only an 18% chance of losing (overall). Extremely versitile and can be quickly transposed into several other openings.
I can't imagine why someone would play anything else
🙄
If you would like, I'd be more than happy to play a few games against you as white. I could play a few different styles of the English..
I'm not Kasparov disclaimer: I'm not a GM and don't pretend to be one. All the above is just my opinion and is subject to being incorrect.
Originally posted by Saint NickYou didn't mention the other mainline, g6 (I think) followed by Bg2. I think that would sort of result in a win against white
I have seen serveral people "respond badly" I suppose. It's usually just a moment of confusion as they are not familiar with the English.
As for it not being a strong opening, I would have to disagree. It's been played routinely by some of the top players (Karpov, Korchnoi, Sierawan, etc) with good success. A quick look at it's statistics shows: ...[text shortened]... nd don't pretend to be one. All the above is just my opinion and is subject to being incorrect.
P.S. Want a game, Nick? (or rather Santa 😀 😀 😀)
Originally posted by zwuYes, you're right. g5 is another common response.
You didn't mention the other mainline, g6 (I think) followed by Bg2. I think that would sort of result in a win against white
P.S. Want a game, Nick? (or rather Santa 😀 😀 😀)
I think of g5 as the same line as the symmetrical, just out of order.
I'm not sure if that response is considered it's own variation.
Can anyone else help with the g5 response?
Sure I'll take a game. I'll send one over....
Originally posted by zwuThere's also ...Nf6 (my favorite), the Anglo-Indian, which keeps your options open and usually transposes into something else, and ...c6, which pretty much always goes into either a Slav Defense or a Reti Opening.
You didn't mention the other mainline, g6 (I think) followed by Bg2. I think that would sort of result in a win against white
P.S. Want a game, Nick? (or rather Santa 😀 😀 😀)
P.S. I'll play someone too 😀
Originally posted by Saint NickNice, articulate post among some of the usual noise from the you-know-who's. You get a rec (unlike others I don't do this often).
I have seen serveral people "respond badly" I suppose. It's usually just a moment of confusion as they are not familiar with the English.
As for it not being a strong opening, I would have to disagree. It's been played routinely by some of the top players (Karpov, Korchnoi, Sierawan, etc) with good success. A quick look at it's statistics shows: ...[text shortened]... nd don't pretend to be one. All the above is just my opinion and is subject to being incorrect.