Originally posted by !~TONY~!Yes,I don't know how it's called in english,but it's to replace the need to actually count the squares.You imagine a square(geometric figure),with each side the length of the squares needed to queen your pawn,if the enemy king is outside it's borders,you know it can't catch your pawn.If you get the hang of it,it reduces time considerably.Pardon the poor explanation,I can do it better in dutch 😀
Isn't there something like that in the endgame about if a king can make it to a passed pawn or not?
But that's not what was meant in this case.Here it was a middlegame.I'll go find the game,so you can see what I'm talking about.I know what he's talking about in that game,it's easy to see,but I would like some more explanation on the subject.It seems really intresting!
Here's the entire game,with annotations.It's by players like you and me(well,maybe a bit better than me LOL),no titled players.
1.e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 The Caro Kann. If you study this line you might be tempted to take the pawn with 3...dxe4 because it looks familiar. However, it is not the same as in the main line Caro Kann and white hopes to get an advantage with that exchange.
3.Nf3 Bg4 4.d4 e6 5.h3 Bxf3 Actually 5... Bh5 is more accurate ... however, when I used to teach, I would recommend that students save time on study (if they had no interest in studying) and choose a line that would be easy to remember.
6.Qxf3 dxe4 7.Nxe4 Normally taking the d pawn in the Caro Kann invites problems with Nf3 and an attack with both knights on f7. However, in this case one knight is off the board and the win of a center pawn is worth some development problems if you can make it out of the opening without getting crushed...<<Grin>>
7...Qxd4 8.Bd3 Nd7 9.Be3 Qb4+ Maybe a good game for students to review the issue of development or in this case lack of development. By offering me the b-pawn white is saying, "Ok, you want pawns, let's see if you can make it out of the opening." After white castles you could consider that he has developed 5 pieces to my two. However, in the Caro Kann, if you're very very careful you can live to fight. Students should remember the knight moves in a varation of the Caro Kann that appears to break opening principles. Dreev (2690) tried 9...Qd5 and did well but I want to try something different.
10.Bd2 Qxb2 A good example of being commited to a line of play, if you feel you don't like this type of play (un-developed) then don't take the pawn on d4. It is like when you start an attack if you don't see it to the end or chicken out at the last moment your game falls apart. You must ask yourself these questions, can black catch up in development yes or no? and if yes what would his short term and long term plans be? You may have heard or been taught not to take the b-pawn with your Queen and this is good advice. How many so called rules have I broken in this game and will I pay for my errors? Only time will tell.
11.0-0 Ne5 If you play caro kann or slav pawn structures you must understand why black might be drawn to this type of line even though it is still unproven. Black is undeveloped, white has no strong center and black is using the e5 square that is normally used by white. It is almost like black has decided to use white's tactics in this opening and defense.
12.Qg3 Nxd3 13.cxd3 Nf6 You could prob ally find a better move than ...Nf6 however, for my style of game this appears to be the most logical choice.
14.Bc3 Nxe4 15.dxe4 Qa3 16.Rab1 0-0-0 So here we are on move 16 and you could say black has made it out of the opening a little behind in development. I judge the position as equal. You might ask, black is two pawns up how can you say the position is equal? The issue is black is behind in development, to put it another way white has an advantage in time, black has an advantge in material. 16...0-0-0, if you look at the position, what else is there? I guess you could try ...b6 but that only creates a target at c6.
17.Qf3 Bc5 To be honest I never considered the move 17.Qf3; however, the move has some good points, it gets the queen off the g file and attacks the f7 pawn. It also indirectly hits on b7 (theory of squares) . Review my last comments (on move 16)and you will understand why I played bishop to c5.
18.Rb3 Qxa2 19.Bxg7 Rhg8 Black knew he was going to have to give back some material to catch up in development (time).
20.Rb2 Qa6 As I said in my comments earlier b7 is a target that must be watched. Just for interest white may have considered the f-pawn and wisely rejected that idea. This is an interesting time to explain how you can spot moves quickly using the theory of squares as a quide. I mentioned b7 in my comments, why to I consider b7 an issue, well if you look at the board quicky you will notice that b7 is being attacked directly by the rook on b2 and indirectly by the queen on f3. This information is enough to warrant a close look at this square. I also mentioned the f-pawn would be a bad choice for white and using the same theory you see that black attacks d4 directly with the bishop on c5 and directly with the rook on d8. Using this information which took about 3 seconds to find or notice gives you valuable information about what is happening on the board.
21.Qxf7 Rxg7 Read my comments on move 20 as to why I feel this capture is wrong. I like this game because it is different in the sense that black used a lot of ideas normally used by white to take control of this game. White was not allowed to setup an attack and with every exchange blacks game became better and better or should I say safer and safer (for black). I was online commenting on a Kasparov win today (while it was being played) and was the only one to see c5 was the key square for his game and moves like Ne1 and then Nd3 to cover off c5 were the key moves in that game. (theory of squares). 0-1
Originally posted by SirLoseALotThe theory of corresponding squares applying to endgames?(Mystical Sister Squares)
I came across that term in an annotated game.What exactly is it?Anyone care to explain this?
I can't explain it but here's a pdf file that does.
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/mueller38.pdf
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Ah, but there is opposition. If you can keep opposition the pawn cannot be promoted if not ... well, it does.
Isn't there something like that in the endgame about if a king can make it to a passed pawn or not?
E.g.
Draw. If White is to move|:
1. Ke6(c6) Ke8(c8) preserving the opposition 2.d7+ Kd8 Kd6 stalemate If 1.Ke5 Kd7 2. Kd5 Kd8 =
If Black: 1... Kd7 2. Ke5 Kd8! =
Sorry, misread the original post. Yes the Reti square named after the famous composer Reti and this remarkable study of his:
White to play and draw.
Now in order to capture the pawn at h5 the king must be in its square which is h5-h1-d5-d1. (The squre's range is determined by the number of squares left to promotion). Here White draws by aiming at two objectives: 1)getting closer to his pawn and 2)getting closer to the square of the enemies pawn.
1. Kg7 Kb6 2. Kf6 (threatens to enter the squre) h4 3.Ke5 (again) h3 4.Kd6 h2 5. c7 h1Q 6. c8Q =
Originally posted by SirLoseALotYou got it, but I've only heard it refered to as "the square of the pawn". Count the spaces a pawn needs to move to promote, make a square of the same number of spaces to the enemy king, if the king is OUTSIDE the square, the pawn can promote. It saves a lot of counting when your clock is running.
Yes,I don't know how it's called in english,but it's to replace the need to actually count the squares.You imagine a square(geometric figure),with each side the length of the squares needed to queen your pawn,if the enemy king is outside it's borders,you know it can't catch your pawn.If you get the hang of it,it reduces time considerably.Pardon the ...[text shortened]... s easy to see,but I would like some more explanation on the subject.It seems really intresting!
Actually, the theory of corresponding squares is quite a different concept from the very simplistic square of the pawn rule. Corresponding squares are tied to opposition of the Kings in an endgame, but is much more complicated than the linear opposition that we are used to. I have to admit that the theory is beyond me, but I do own Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual, which is supposed to have a rather lucid explanation of the concept...Now that this thread had reminded me, I will have to crack the book open. 😉
Originally posted by SirLoseALotThe only other thing I can think of is Squares Strategy by Alexander Bangiev. This is a training CD that proposes to teach you how to find the right plan for any position by checking against his model. I don't know if it has been reviewed by any credible critics though. There are articles on it at the Chessbase website.
This endgame theory is very intresting as well.
But does anybody have a clue about the initial question?
Originally posted by ilywrinWon't black win this if he uses his first 4 moves to get a queen?
Sorry, misread the original post. Yes the Reti square named after the famous composer Reti and this remarkable study of his:
[fen]7K/8/k1P5/7p/8/8/8/8 w[/fen]
White to play and draw.
Now in order to capture the pawn at h5 the king must be in its square which is h5-h1-d5-d1. (The squre's range is determined by the number of squares left to promotion). ...[text shortened]... 1. Kg7 Kb6 2. Kf6 (threatens to enter the squre) h4 3.Ke5 (again) h3 4.Kd6 h2 5. c7 h1Q 6. c8Q =
I know this usually isn't the case with a c pawn but here the black king is really close.
Originally posted by TestriderLet's see: 1.Kg7 h4 2. Kf6 h3 3. Ke6!/but not 3.Ke5? Ka7! -+/3...Kb6 (or 3... h2 4.c7 Kb7 5. Kd7 =; 3...Ka74.c7 Kb7 5.Kd7=)
Won't black win this if he uses his first 4 moves to get a queen?
I know this usually isn't the case with a c pawn but here the black king is really close.
4.Kd6 h2 5.c7=
So, White draws 😉
The best version of sneaking into the pawn's square that I've seen is the following study by A.Saritchev and k.Saritchev IIRC:
White to play and draw.
1. Kc8!! b5 2. Kd7! Bf5 + 3. Kd6 b4 4. Ke5! Bh3 5. Kd4 =
Originally posted by Testrider
Won't black win this if he uses his first 4 moves to get a queen?
I know this usually isn't the case with a c pawn but here the black king is really close.
No...whites king continues along the h8-a1 diagonal eventually coming to within one square of protecting it's own pawn.
Black will have to use 2 moves to close on whites pawn(and take it) to prevent it.
It did not look possible to me either, so I brought up an analyze board from one of my games, rearrange it, and tryed it myself...amazing!