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  1. 29 May '08 17:37
    Hello Chessfriends!

    My name is Davy Jones and I want to try and start a chess topic that may or may not interest the members here at Red Hot Pawn.

    I am sure that many of you, or at least some of you, have played in Thematic Chess Tournaments somewhere, sometime in your life. The idea of this post is for those who might be interested in responding is to post a Thematic Theme that you would find interesting if it was made into a chess tourney. Of course the idea would be that a player plays each opponent twice; that is one game as White and the other is Black.

    Usually, I think, a Thematic Chess Tournament involves a Gambit, like one of the King's Gambit lines say.

    Here is a Thematic Theme that I think could be fun that actually is a Double Gambit. When I was a young Laddie, I didn't realize that this line below was actually an official Book Opening. I think I must have seen someone play it, and then I adopted it as my own (so I thought) secret weapon. Granted, I didn't have great chess competition in those days which might be why I had so much success while using this "secret weapon" of mine. Though I think this would be a lot of fun as a Thematic Theme, it might be a challenge to win as White as you do clearly give up two pawns (that you don't automatically win back like some gambits) for an attacking position. OK, here it is:

    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3 dxc3 5.Bc4 cxb2 6.Bxb2. Then Black takes it from here.

    I think that this might be a possible Scotch Gambit line. I am not sure if this Book Opening strategy is ever used in serious chess today, however, I would be surprised if it was. Considering each player has a crack at White and a chance to defend with Black, I think this would be a very interesting Thematic Tournament that would also be a lot of fun. What do you guys think of this line for a Thematic Tournament?

    Anyways, please let me know what Thematic Theme that you might consider to be a cool tournament.

    Davy Jones
  2. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    29 May '08 21:55
    Sorry, you've missed it!

    http://www.timeforchess.com/tournament/view.php?tid=3697
  3. 30 May '08 06:03
    What is it that I missed?

    Calling it a type of a Scotch gambit or a possible Scotch Gambit line? To be honest, my line that is slightly different than the Danish Gambit that you linked to could be considered a possible Scotch Gambit line or a type of Danish.

    I'm not really sure what you are saying with your little sentence. I'm just suggesting that this line would make a cool Thematic Tournament. Are you saying that I missed it because a very similar Thematic Tourney (the Dutch Gambit) is being already played, like one that I thought would be a cool thematic theme? I am certain that my slightly different Scotch/Danish Gambit line can be found in an opening book

    I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at, but thanks for the link Tony. I don't think I have ever visited timeforchess.com. I'm going to give it a looksie.

    Hey Tony. Let me ask you the question that I am asking everyone else. What Thematic Theme would you think could make for a really COOL chess Tournament. I'm trying to remember a real odd one that was once used. Have you heard of the Saint George Defense? It starts out like this: 1.e4 a6 2.d4 b5 Hmmm, I'll have to look into that one before I vote it as an interesting thematic theme. I know there is some strategy to the Saint George Defense, but I am presently unaware of it, except for the obvious hindrance of allowing White's King Bishop to come out past d3.

    Anyone else have any cool/odd/ opening lines that would make for an interesting thematic tournament?

    Before I finish this post, I would like to ask a question. Does anyone have or know of any record of the Danish Gambit, or my proposed Scotch-like Danish Gambit used in a game of importance between a couple of (somewhat even) Masters? This would be cool to see.

    Davy Jones
  4. Standard member John of Reading
    Scotch addict
    30 May '08 06:23
    Originally posted by Davyboy
    I don't think I have ever visited timeforchess.com. I'm going to give it a looksie.
    There's no need to visit timeforchess; it is just RHP by another name.

    FAQ
  5. 30 May '08 06:48
    Originally posted by Davyboy
    ...Before I finish this post, I would like to ask a question. Does anyone have or know of any record of the Danish Gambit, or my proposed Scotch-like Danish Gambit used in a game of importance between a couple of (somewhat even) Masters? This would be cool to see.

    Davy Jones
    Tarrasch-Lasker 1881 1-0
  6. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    30 May '08 07:08 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Davyboy
    What is it that I missed?

    Calling it a type of a Scotch gambit or a possible Scotch Gambit line? To be honest, my line that is slightly different than the Danish Gambit that you linked to could be considered a possible Scotch Gambit line or a type of Danish.

    I'm not really sure what you are saying with your little sentence. I'm just suggesting that th e between a couple of (somewhat even) Masters? This would be cool to see.

    Davy Jones
    I missed the insertion of Nf3 and Nc6 in your line above, I thought you were talking about the Danish Gambit. Either way the positions are very similar. The proper name for the line you gave is the Goring Gambit. As stated earlier, timeforchess is just another shell that's usable for RHP. You could use your log in to play there as well if you like the color scheme better. Another shell is: www.chessatwork.com

    To be honest, I don't hold the Danish, the Goring, or the St. George in high regards. I think they're a little silly, and I wouldn't consider playing them in any type of serious setting. The problem is is that the St. George is just not good for Black, so playing it in a thematic is not really that great of an idea, since in half your games, you're just going to be suffering. If you have an idea for a tournament, you could always send Russ some feedback using the "Send Feedback" option at the bottom of this page with the request.

    As far as any games go with the Danish, here is a game played by strong master, Savielly Tartakower, one of the heroes of old. Recent games are quite difficult to find, since most players these days don't play it (the line in the first game is one good reason to never play the Danish!) :

    [Event "Baden"]
    [Site "Baden"]
    [Date "1914.??.??"]
    [EventDate "?"]
    [Round "?"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [White "Gustaf Nyholm"]
    [Black "Savielly Tartakower"]
    [ECO "C21"]
    [WhiteElo "?"]
    [BlackElo "?"]
    [PlyCount "78"]

    1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Bc4 d5 5.Bxd5 cxb2 6.Bxb2 Nf6
    7.Bxf7+ Kxf7 8.Qxd8 Bb4+ 9.Qd2 Bxd2+ 10.Nxd2 Re8 11.f3 Nc6
    12.Rc1 Be6 13.a3 Rad8 14.Ne2 Re7 15.Nc4 Bxc4 16.Rxc4 Nd7
    17.Nd4 Nxd4 18.Rxd4 c5 19.Rd5 Rc8 20.Ke2 Rc6 21.Rc1 g6 22.g4
    a6 23.h4 b5 24.h5 c4 25.hxg6+ hxg6 26.Bc3 Nb6 27.Rd8 Rd7
    28.Rxd7+ Nxd7 29.Rd1 Nc5 30.Rd5 Na4 31.Kd2 Nxc3 32.Kxc3 Rf6
    33.Kd4 Rxf3 34.Ke5 Rxa3 35.Rd7+ Ke8 36.Ra7 Kd8 37.g5 Ra1
    38.Kd6 Rd1+ 39.Ke6 c3 0-1
  7. 30 May '08 07:09
    Originally posted by John of Reading
    There's no need to visit timeforchess; it is just RHP by another name.

    FAQ
    Oh, I see. Thanks.

    It's amazing how quickly one gets a response ion this forum.
  8. 30 May '08 07:39
    Thanks Tony for your quick response.

    To be honest, I'm not so much interested in playing a Thematic Tournament. I just thought it would make an interesting topic. That is to see what type of openings chess players here would consider to be cool thematic themes.

    Oh, it's called the Goring Gambit eh? I don't know if it would make such a bad thematic tournament. I agree that it isn't a choice for a serious chess game; however, it is my understanding that thematic tournaments are not really serious type games. I am under the understanding that each opponent that you play involves 2 games; one as White, the other as Black. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but the two Bishop diagonal control for white looks kind of cool. I kind of thought thematic tourneys were more for fun rather than serious play. I actually don't remember for sure if I've even played such a tourney. I kind of took for granted that these would have to be unrated games. Thanks for the Danish game. I was actually hoping that someone would post a game where White won. I know it has been done with the Goring, but I can't remember who was playing. Old chess masters as the book was ancient. As for the St. George, I'm going to look into it I think. There's actually a book that you can buy that explains the strategy/reasonings behind the St. George. Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that it is a powerful defense by no means; however, if you were to play someone who has no idea what is going on with the St. George strategy, they could be beaten. I'm not talking about a semi-retarded player who could be taken by surprise, but an actual strong player could find himself embarrassed after running into the St. George unaware.

    The info below is from the wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._George_Defence

    The first known chess game involving the St. George was a simultaneous game between an English amateur J. Baker and the first official World Chess Champion Wilhelm Steinitz on 11 December 1868. The game was won by Baker and the opening derives it's name from that game as the patron saint of England is St George. The advocates of the opening are generally players willing to sacrifice the center in order to attack from the flank, and to avoid theory. Michael Basman has been known to play the St. George, as did Tony Miles.

    In perhaps its most famous appearance, Miles defeated reigning world champion Anatoly Karpov in the 1980 European Team Championship in Skara, Sweden. Miles thus named the opening after the myth of Saint George and the Dragon in which Saint George slays the dragon as Miles slew Karpov in winning the game. The opening also acquired the name of "Birmingham Defence" at this time, after Miles' hometown.
    Boris Spassky also played the St. George Defence, albeit by transposition, in the 22nd game of his 1966 world championship match against world champion Tigran Petrosian.

    Anatoly Karpov-Anthony Miles, European Team Championship, Skara 1980.[1] 1.e4 a6 2.d4 b5 3.Nf3 Bb7 4.Bd3 Nf6 5.Qe2 e6 6.a4 c5 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.Nbd2 b4 9.e5 Nd5 10.Ne4 Be7 11.0-0 Nc6 12.Bd2 Qc7 13.c4 bxc3 14.Nxc3 Nxc3 15.Bxc3 Nb4 16.Bxb4 Bxb4 17.Rac1 Qb6 18.Be4 0-0!? 19.Ng5 (19.Bxh7+!? is a very dangerous sacrifice) h6 20.Bh7+ Kh8 21.Bb1 Be7 22.Ne4 Rac8 23.Qd3 Rxc1 24.Rxc1 Qxb2 25.Re1 Qxe5 26.Qxd7 Bb4 27.Re3 Qd5 28.Qxd5 Bxd5 29.Nc3 Rc8 30.Ne2 g5 31.h4 Kg7 32.hxg5 hxg5 33.Bd3 a5 34.Rg3 Kf6 35.Rg4 Bd6 36.Kf1 Be5 37.Ke1 Rh8 38.f4 gxf4 39.Nxf4 Bc6 40.Ne2 Rh1+ 41.Kd2 Rh2 42.g3 Bf3 43.Rg8 Rg2 44.Ke1 Bxe2 45.Bxe2 Rxg3 46.Ra8 Bc7 0-1.[2]

    Well, I have to wish you all a good night!

    Dave
  9. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    30 May '08 12:14
    Originally posted by Davyboy
    I just thought it would make an interesting topic ... to see what type of openings chess players here would consider to be cool thematic themes.
    I once threw out the idea for an Albin Countergambit (1. d4 d5 2. c4 e5) thematic tournament, but I didn't get too much interest. I don't know, though, it's still an interesting opening.