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This position again?

This position again?

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c

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I wonder what your thoughts are on this position.
Opening moves are:
1. d4 Nf6
2. Bf4 b6
3. e3 Bb7
4. Nc3 e6
5. Nb5 d6
6. Nf3 a6
I have played this two games in a row now. First one I won.
The second is in progress.. I play black. Last game white retreated his knight allowing me to develop my knight for free...
What are your analasis of this position? Must have some terrible weaknesses because I havent been able to find a game played this way. I think Kasparov played something similar as white in his first game vs deep blue 1997. Not the same obviously, but some structures seem to be similar. Thoughts?

David Tebb

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You've told us that your second game with this opening is still in progress. So none of us are allowed to comment on it.

c

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Originally posted by David Tebb
You've told us that your second game with this opening is still in progress. So none of us are allowed to comment on it.
Yes. Sorry. I will nugde this thread to the to after the game is finished.
Its being played rather rapidly on another site...
I might have more to say myself then :-)

c

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Ok... the game is over and I managed to win this one too.
This game went more or less the same way as the last one. White attacking on the kingside, and I managing to beat it back and getting counterplay on the same side.
What I wanted to know is what you guys think of this opening, it's non standard so it's probably weak in more ways than one. The two games I have played it were with opponents at about 1350-1400 and thats plenty more than me. Does it have any redeeming qualities I stumbled into? Especially weak spots?
Commented PGN (colum style):

1. d4 Nf6
2. Bf4 b6
3. e3 Bb7
4. Nc3 e6

{Moves up to here is a somewhat indirect challange for the center. Mainly
d5 and e4.}

5. Nb5

{Threatens knight fork on c7.}

5. ... d6

{Removes fork threat.}

6. Nf3 a6
7. Nc3 Nc6

{I judge this pretty even. Is it?}

8. Bd3 g6
9. h4 Bg7
10. Qd2 O-O

{Here I'm pretty happy about the board. Both bishops on the long diagonals.
Knights on c6 and f6. No obvious weakness in pawn structure(?) The only
pieces under direct attack are a,d & g pawns. My king feels pretty safe.
(?)}

11. e4 Ng4

{Here I move my knight because of a possible e5 push.}

12. Nh2 Nxh2

{Since f6 still dont look any diffrent I make the trade.}

13. Rxh2 Nxd4

{.. and grab the undefended pawn. This move would not have been possible
had i had my center pawns on fifth rank. }

14. Bh6 Bxh6
15. Qxh6

{This exchange is the beginning of a kingside attack from white.}

15. ... Qf6
16. h5 Qg7

{Offering a queen & pawn trade opening up the kingside. This is an attempt
to avoid getting a rook supported queen on h7.}

17. Qe3 g5

{trying to regain some mobility for my queen.}

18. f4 f6

{Oops... Hung the knight. Bad. }

19. Qxd4 gxf4

{quite risky opening up the g-file straight to a possible queen on king
pin.}

20. Qf2

{this threatened my f4 pawn and begins a concentration of forces on my
collapsed kingside.}

20. ... e5

{protect the f4-pawn and even more importantly block the white e -pawn.}

21. O-O-O Kf7

{Walking my king towards the center. Away from the storm coming on the
kingside.}

22. h6 Qg5
23. Bc4+ Ke7
24. Nd5+ Bxd5
25. Bxd5 Rab8
26. Rdh1 Qg4
27. Rh3 f5
28. g3

{Here I find a way to even things out a little. The tactic is directed at
his queen using my f8 rook.}

28. ... fxe4
29. Bxe4 fxg3
30. Qe3 g2
31. Bxg2

{This move is a mistake for white I realize now..
There is no reason to sac the bishop for the pawn since he has got the
promotion square, under control. }

31. ... Qxg2
32. Rg1 Rf1+
33. Rxf1 Qxf1+
34. Kd2 Qf4
35. a4 Rg8

{Getting control over the g-file}

36. b4

{Also a bad move by white}

36. ... Qxb4+
37. Kc1 Qf4

{And we're back..}

38. Qxf4 exf4
39. Rf3 Rg4
40. Rc3

{Here I start looking for a way to take his rook by promoting the f-pawn
since he seems to wanna go pawn hunting.. }

40. ... c5

{I cant leave my c pawn since Rxc7+ takes a tempo from me.}

41. Rb3

{As I hoped he attacked the b-pawn}

41. ... Rg3

{make him go for it...}

42. Rxb6 Rg2

{control d2}

43. Rxa6

{Pawn hunting... }

43. ... f3
44. Ra7+ Kf6
45. Ra8 f2
46. Rf8+ Ke7
47. Rf3 Rg1+
48. Kb2 f1=Q

{I think that was a nice plan...}

49. Rxf1 Rxf1
50. a5 d5

{And now finish him....}

51. a6 Rf6
52. a7 Ra6
53. c4 d4
54. Kc2 Rxa7
55. Kb3 Ke6
56. Kb2 Rb7+
57. Kc2 Rb4
58. Kd3 Ke5

{my first intentional Zugzwang ( or how the heck it's spelt)}

59. Ke2 Rxc4
60. Kd3 Rc3+
61. Kd2 Ke4
62. Ke1 Ke3
63. Kf1 Kf3
64. Kg1 Kg3
65. Kf1 Re3
66. Kg1 Re1#

*

c

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I might as well post the first game too...
I think I overstated the similarities, they are similar but also very diffrent:

1. d4 Nf6
2. Bf4 b6
3. e3 Bb7
4. Nc3 e6
5. Nb5 d6
6. Nf3 a6
7. Nc3 Nc6
8. Bd3 Be7
9. Bg5 h6
10. Bxf6 Bxf6
11. h4 O-O
12. h5 Qe7
13. Ne4 d5
14. Nxf6+ Qxf6
15. Rh3 Rae8
16. c3 e5
17. dxe5 Nxe5
18. Bc2 Ng4
19. Qd3 Re4
20. Nd4 Nxf2
21. Qe2 Nxh3
22. Bxe4 Ng1
23. Qg4 dxe4
24. Kd2 Qf2+
25. Ne2 Rd8+
26. Kc2 Nxe2
27. Kb3 Bd5+
28. c4 Qxe3+
29. Kb4 Qc5+
30. Kb3 Qxc4+
31. Ka3 Qc5+
32. b4 Qc3+
33. Ka4 b5+
34. Ka5 Qa3#

0-1

f

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Any thoughts, yes 2...b6 isnt very good, why not just play e6 or d5

c

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Originally posted by forevergreenwithenvy
Any thoughts, yes 2...b6 isnt very good, why not just play e6 or d5
Hmm.. yes. I know. But what I wanted to know, that I didn't, is why?...
I am aware that this opening goes against most thoughts on openings. But in the intrest of learning: What are the weakspots in this defence?
They are not obvious enough for me to notice, and my opponents, though higher rated, has not managed to punish me for opening this way. Thus my intrest in knowing...

c

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I'll try this once more.
Then I'll let it die.. :-(

AThousandYoung
1st Dan TKD Kukkiwon

tinyurl.com/2te6yzdu

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3 edits
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What's wrong with 2...b6? This seems to be basically the Queen's Indian Defense. I don't know if this variation is any good, but that's obviously what you are thinking.

I don't really see anything wrong with this for Black. He's going to have zero trouble fully developing, White's conceded e2-e4, White's wasting tempo on an attack that's not going to work before he's fully developed...He's also not played c4.

First game you posted: I guess it's pretty even for both sides as of the 7th move. I don't understand why White moved 5. Nb5 unless 1) he's a noob or 2) he thinks that he can take advantage of your a6 move. I think it's probably 1).

I think White should have a stronger center. I would have moved c4 before Nc3, and he should have fought harder for e4. For example:

1. d4 Nf6
2. c4

(the standard line).

Or,

2. Bf4 b6
3. c4

Or maybe even

3. g3

Followed by Nf3, Bg2, O-O and then fight for e4.

Basically he's got a sissy, conservative center, which invites you to fight hard for the center and try to take the initiative in the center. He doesn't have a bad game exactly, but he's given up that little aggressive edge he got by virtue of having the first move.

c

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Originally posted by AThousandYoung
What's wrong with 2...b6? This seems to be basically the Queen's Indian Defense. I don't know if this variation is any good, but that's obviously what you are thinking.

I don't really see anything wrong with this for Black. He's going to have zero trouble fully developing, White's conceded e2-e4, White's wasting tempo on an attack that's ...[text shortened]... actly, but he's given up that little aggressive edge he got by virtue of having the first move.
Thanks :-)
So basically, it's a fair way to open?
I have enjoyed both games and might play this way again :-)

e

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Your pawn structure only had one weakness at move 40, with c5 you created two, leaving you with three things to defend (f4 too) but only two peices. Better, in my opinion would have been Kd7 then Rg3. Why give you opponent couterplay if you don't have to?

AThousandYoung
1st Dan TKD Kukkiwon

tinyurl.com/2te6yzdu

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It seems fair to me for both sides. White should be more aggressive in the center, but it's not a suicidical opening for him or anything.

y

Shadow Realm

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This is just A45: Queen's Pawn Game (Trompowsky Attack)...

I don't see what's so special about it...the position is practically even...

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