Thoughts on this position

I've just played an embarrasing game in which I mishandled the opening and ended up with a rook and an awkwardly playced king for a knight and a pawn.

I strung it out thinking that there must be some kind of counterplay I could generate with the material I had left but my opponent did a fantastic job of creating and exploiting a massive positional bind.

My question is - from this position is it destiny that I will go down in an ignominious fashion? I've got the black pieces...



Game 9574133

P.S. I know that trapping/hanging a bishop later on didn't help.

Originally posted by hunterknox
I've just played an embarrasing game in which I mishandled the opening and ended up with a rook and an awkwardly playced king for a knight and a pawn.

I strung it out thinking that there must be some kind of counterplay I could generate with the material I had left but my opponent did a fantastic job of creating and exploiting a massive positional bind ...[text shortened]... en]

Game 9574133

P.S. I know that trapping/hanging a bishop later on didn't help.

Well i dont know what you were thinking with c6 and e6 while letting him play f4 and e5? You just basically created a position where his knight was more valuable than you rook. It may seem counter intuitive since you were less developed but i think you needed to open the position asap to get your rooks into the game.

Originally posted by tomtom232
Well i dont know what you were thinking with c6 and e6 while letting him play f4 and e5? You just basically created a position where his knight was more valuable than you rook. It may seem counter intuitive since you were less developed but i think you needed to open the position asap to get your rooks into the game.

BTW I don't mean to come off as offensive I really am interested in your reasoning behind the stated moves.

No worries.

c6 was to avoid Nd5 - c7 which takes the rook straight away, and to be honest I didn't even consider Ne4 - d6: e6 was simply trying to limit the scope of while's light square bishop in blissful ignorance.

Originally posted by tomtom232
Well i dont know what you were thinking with c6 and e6 while letting him play f4 and e5? You just basically created a position where his knight was more valuable than you rook. It may seem counter intuitive since you were less developed but i think you needed to open the position asap to get your rooks into the game.

I think his c6 was to prevent Nd5 by white. I think he played e6 to prevent f5 and forgot about e5. I think c6 is good, but d6 to prevent e5 is better than e6 to prevent f5.

P.S. I see he already answered.

Originally posted by hunterknox
I've just played an embarrasing game in which I mishandled the opening and ended up with a rook and an awkwardly playced king for a knight and a pawn.

I strung it out thinking that there must be some kind of counterplay I could generate with the material I had left but my opponent did a fantastic job of creating and exploiting a massive positional bind ...[text shortened]... en]

Game 9574133

P.S. I know that trapping/hanging a bishop later on didn't help.

Nd5 for white gives him a very strong position, but there is always the possibility of a comeback.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Nd5 for white gives him a very strong position, but there is always the possibility of a comeback.

Why don't you just shut up!

Originally posted by hunterknox
No worries.

c6 was to avoid Nd5 - c7 which takes the rook straight away, and to be honest I didn't even consider Ne4 - d6: e6 was simply trying to limit the scope of while's light square bishop in blissful ignorance.

Ok. C6 seems good but e6 is the killer. Usually when a good exchange sac happens the position closes up giving the rooks no scope... This is what im basing my reasoning on. I dont see a good way to open the position so it would seem you are in a battle to keep the position from becoming closed until you can open some files.

I agree that 13 ... d6 is better than 13 ... e6.

The posted postion was with White move.


Here it is after White 0-0-0.

That is a very difficult position to play as Black, you will need to untangle
very slowly d6 & Nd7. or b6 (instead of e6) with Ba6 ideas.
You may have to shed another pawn to get some freedom. I'd be looking
for a line opening pawn sac to free myself. It looks awful.

Someone said the d6 Knight was better than the Rook.
Slight under statement. 🙂


Position after 19.c5.

That d6 Knight is better than a Rook, a Bishop and a Knight.

That d6 Knight is holding up the whole Queenside.
The b8 Knight cannot get out because the a6 Bishop cannot move so that
means the a8 Rook cannot move.
Indeed as the game went Black tossed the Bishop overboard with


23...Bc8 to get the Knight and Rook into the game.

Nice tricky opening variation.
If I played 1.d4 and met the Dutch I'd have something like that on my board.
Perhaps prep the Dutch with 1...e6 to avoid all the sharp lines though of course
that means you may have to play a French.

Not sure I'd chop the Queens on move 10. 10.Nd5 looks good.


Hits on e7 and e7.

Maybe, maybe not. Different game.

Good game by White, he should frame that diagram after 19.c5.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
The posted postion was with White move.

[fen]rnb2k1r/pp1pp1b1/2p4p/8/3PPP1B/2N5/PPP3P1/2KR1BN1 b - - 0 13[/fen]
Here it is after White 0-0-0.

That is a very difficult position to play as Black, you will need to untangle
very slowly d6 & Nd7. or b6 (instead of e6) with Ba6 ideas.
You may have to shed another pawn to get some freedom. I'd be loo ...[text shortened]... , maybe not. Different game.

Good game by White, he should frame that diagram after 19.c5.

I nice post Grenpawn. You seem to have explained the overall picture nicely.
Just a couple of additional points:
I feel it may be better to forego playing h6 (which weakens g6) and play d6 straight away.
Another possible try that nobody seemed to have mentioned is to play Bf6!? instead of d6 (without h6 first)

Yes, thanks GP - seems I need a better response from the get-go. It's harsh to realise that you've engineered a situation where a knight's bossing 3 pieces with no come back in the game itself, but hopefully I'll remember not to get in that situation again.

Cheers all!