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  1. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    17 Mar '12 18:40
    Have mercy people, if you doubt it's drawn, don't offer, don't accept.
  2. 17 Mar '12 19:57
    There's a maxim about choosing one's battles carefully.

    There comes a time when the prospects of a win are so small that the time and effort to go after it might be better spent on another front.

    I'm reading the Blunders and Brilliancies book recommended over on Planet Greenpawn. Even Grandmasters sometimes seem grateful to accept or offer a draw in what is later sometimes shown to be an easily won position.

    There's some human psychology at work here as well - we often tend to fear defeat more than we savor victory.

    And without meaning to seem confrontational, but why don't you worry about your own games, and let others make the decisions they feel proper?
  3. 17 Mar '12 20:00
    I think games ending in a draw are the best because they best reflect the pointlessness of it all.
  4. 17 Mar '12 20:33 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ChessPraxis
    Have mercy people, if you doubt it's drawn, don't offer, don't accept.
    It's not that simple. Much has been written about the psychology of draw offers.
    One could offer a draw to a higher rated opponent, hoping that the offer will be
    declined and then the higher rated player will risk too much in attempting to win.
    A timely draw offer could influence one's opponent into misjudging the position.

    Sometimes a player may offer a draw on account of not only competitive motives.
    GM David Norwood once considered offering a draw (in a better position) to
    Zsofia Polgar only because he intended to ask her for a date after the game and
    he suspected that she would be more agreeable if she did not lose the game.
    David Norwood said that his game was more successful than his date with her.
  5. 17 Mar '12 20:46
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    It's not that simple. Much has been written about the psychology of draw offers.
    One could offer a draw to a higher rated opponent, hoping that the offer will be
    declined and then the higher rated player will risk too much in attempting to win.
    A timely draw offer could influence one's opponent into misjudging the position.

    Sometimes a player may of ...[text shortened]... t lose the game.
    David Norwood said that his game was more successful than his date with her.
    Lol, how cunning!
  6. 17 Mar '12 21:24
    Originally posted by FastEddieB
    There's a maxim about choosing one's battles carefully.

    There comes a time when the prospects of a win are so small that the time and effort to go after it might be better spent on another front.

    I'm reading the Blunders and Brilliancies book recommended over on Planet Greenpawn. Even Grandmasters sometimes seem grateful to accept or offer a draw in ...[text shortened]... y don't you worry about your own games, and let others make the decisions they feel proper?
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1149858

    At the 1988 Olympiad, Yasser Seirawan (USA) invested a disproportionately large
    amount of energy into attempting to grind out a win in a slightly better endgame
    position against Xu Jun (China). The game continued through several adjournments
    (Seirawan rejected all draw offers) until it was drawn by stalemate on move 191.
  7. 17 Mar '12 22:27
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    It's not that simple. Much has been written about the psychology of draw offers.
    . . . GM David Norwood once considered offering a draw (in a better position) to
    Zsofia Polgar only because he intended to ask her for a date . . .
    I know the effect on me sometimes when I offer a draw and it is declined, to really want to force the draw (or even get the win). It's kind of an ittrational feeling to want to prove that it was a legitimate and meaningful draw offer, and that the play since the declinde draw offer has been fruitless.

    As for Zsofia Polgar, she is cute and a smart girl.
  8. 17 Mar '12 22:31
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1149858

    At the 1988 Olympiad, Yasser Seirawan (USA) invested a disproportionately large
    amount of energy into attempting to grind out a win in a slightly better endgame
    position against Xu Jun (China). The game continued through several adjournments
    (Seirawan rejected all draw offers) until it was drawn by stalemate on move 191.
    Reportedly, some of the other players on the US team believed that Yasser
    Seirawan had become too obsessed with winning his game against Xu Jun.
    They thought that it would have better for the team if Seirawan had agreed
    earlier to a draw and hence conserved his energy for his other games.
    If I recall correctly, Yasser Seirawan explained his persistence by saying that
    he had assumed that all Chinese players must be weak in the endgame.
    (For many years, Western GMs tended to belittle the strength and potential of
    all Chinese players. In her book _Chess Bitch_, Jennifer Shahade challenged
    some common Western stereotypes of Chinese players.)
  9. 17 Mar '12 22:42 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by moon1969
    ...
    As for Zsofia Polgar, she is cute and a smart girl.
    GM David Norwood had lost his previous game to Zsofia Polgar, so he was torn
    between his desire to avenge his defeat by winning the game and his desire to
    enjoy a date with her, which he thought more likely if the game were drawn.
    He won the game and then asked her for a date (what did he have to lose?).
    But he was disappointed by how the first date proceeded and, as far as I know,
    there was no second date between them. Before her marriage, Zsofia Polgar
    was not lacking for male admirers among strong chess players.

    Moon1969 wrote, "Zsofia Polgar ... is cute and a smart girl."
    To what extent would she appreciate 'well-meaning' condescension?
    (Would a man of her age like to be described as a 'smart boy'?)
  10. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    17 Mar '12 22:59
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    It's not that simple. Much has been written about the psychology of draw offers.
    One could offer a draw to a higher rated opponent, hoping that the offer will be
    declined and then the higher rated player will risk too much in attempting to win.
    A timely draw offer could influence one's opponent into misjudging the position.

    Sometimes a player may of ...[text shortened]... t lose the game.
    David Norwood said that his game was more successful than his date with her.
    Who would have thought- a draw offer intended as a mating attack.
  11. 17 Mar '12 23:19
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    Who would have thought- a draw offer intended as a mating attack.
    In the interest of clarity, while David Norwood considered offering a draw
    to Zsofia Polgar, he did not offer a draw and proceeded to win the game.
    Afterward on their first date, he did his best to persuade her that she should
    leave her current boyfriend in favour of an 'English gentleman' such as himself.
    But it was too hard for him to manoeuvre into an off-the-board mating position.

    I suspect that David Norwood might have offered a draw even in a winning
    position on the chessboard if he had known that would greatly improve his
    position with Zsofia Polgar in some other ways. For whatever it's worth,
    of the Polgar sisters, Zsofia was the least serious about chess and, according
    to several male players of my acquaintance, the most attractive young woman.
  12. 18 Mar '12 21:18
    Originally posted by FastEddieB
    There's a maxim about choosing one's battles carefully. ...
    GM Nadezhda Kosintseva and GM Tatiana Kosintseva have routinely agreed
    to short draws with each other. They seem to feel that playing to win against
    each other might not be good for their relationship as sisters.
  13. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    19 Mar '12 01:36
    The Polgars have seemed to age well.
  14. 19 Mar '12 09:17 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by ChessPraxis
    The Polgars have seemed to age well.
    Na, Judith has gone to seed.
  15. 19 Mar '12 10:59 / 10 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Moon1969 wrote, "Zsofia Polgar ... is cute and a smart girl."
    To what extent would she appreciate 'well-meaning' condescension?
    (Would a man of her age like to be described as a 'smart boy'?)
    I guess when you are my age . . .

    She is a mature woman and deserves respect. Most women want to be respected and recognized as mature and intelligient, but many do like to be call "girl" in that well-meaning condescending way you allude.

    Try it next time. When you are getting close to say with a 45-yr old woman, and she gives you that affectionate smile, and if you think it pretty, call her a "pretty girl" and see how she responds. I have received batter eye lashes at that point.

    While I have never been affectionate with Zsofia Polgar, I do think she is a cute girl (as you know), but she is probably too young for me.