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Was this a draw?

Was this a draw?

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f

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Should I have accepted the draw offer here? I think I was too quick to accept. I think I may have had a winning position earlier but managed to mess it up royally.


Game 1531022

w

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Originally posted by fraser11
Should I have accepted the draw offer here? I think I was too quick to accept. I think I may have had a winning position earlier but managed to mess it up royally.


Game 1531022
You should have played on. Regardless of the theoretical outcome with 'best play', you have the extra pawn, and (barring hanging the rook) cannot lose. You should play on until he has fully stopped your pawn.

t

Garner, NC

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Originally posted by fraser11
Should I have accepted the draw offer here? I think I was too quick to accept. I think I may have had a winning position earlier but managed to mess it up royally.


Game 1531022
I know this is answering a different question that what was asked, but...

Black could have easily forced a draw on its last move. By playing Rf6
and forcing an exchange of rooks, it is very easy from there to attain
the draw (since the black king will be well positioned in front of the
advancing pawn).

R

Edmonton, Alberta

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It is with best play. I wouldn't waste my time on such a position. Take the draw, and start another game.

m

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If theWhite P is on the 3rd rank (It is) and its K is near it (It is), White can force the win only if the opposing K is cut off at a distance of 3 or more files for a NP (It isn’t) or 2 files from a BP, QP, or KP. Here the White R has to abandon the f-file and the Black K can then get to g8.

B
Ol' Blue Eyes

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Originally posted by fraser11
Should I have accepted the draw offer here? I think I was too quick to accept. I think I may have had a winning position earlier but managed to mess it up royally.


Game 1531022
This is definitely a draw.

F

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Originally posted by fraser11
Should I have accepted the draw offer here? I think I was too quick to accept. I think I may have had a winning position earlier but managed to mess it up royally.


Game 1531022
In my world of games it doesn’t matter if it *is* a draw or *is not* a draw.
What matters is if you think your opponent can make a win or not. That’s most important.

If a rookie says a B+N+K is a win against my K, then I just say 'Prove it!' and wait 50 moves.
Or in a more complicated position he claims draw, I just say 'Prove it!' and hope that he make a bad move before I do.

But if Anand claims a draw, even after 5 moves, I accept it right away.

So in this specific case: Do you think that your opponent may be doing some bad move by mistake, then deny a draw. Do you think that yourself are prone to make a bad move or have a low time bank, then accept a draw. This has nothing to do with the position but merely your knowledge about your opponent, yourself or other off-board things

MS

Under Cover

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If you had played 50 g7 instead of 50 g3, I believe you would have had better chances for the win. That being said, the position that you ended with looks dead drawn, and unless you think you could learn something from playing it out (or if you doubt your opponent's ability to close the deal) then take the draw and move on.

X
Cancerous Bus Crash

p^2.sin(phi)

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Originally posted by FabianFnas
In my world of games it doesn’t matter if it *is* a draw or *is not* a draw.
What matters is if you think your opponent can make a win or not. That’s most important.

If a rookie says a B+N+K is a win against my K, then I just say 'Prove it!' and wait 50 moves.
Or in a more complicated position he claims draw, I just say 'Prove it!' and hope that he m ...[text shortened]... e position but merely your knowledge about your opponent, yourself or other off-board things
Claiming a draw is not the same as asking for a draw. If your opponent claims a draw then you don't get to choose whether the game is drawn. If the conditions warrant a draw (insufficient material, stalemate, repetition of position, 50 move rule, lack of losing chances) then it's a draw (the last one requires an adjudicator to decide it).

However if your opponent offers or asks (semantic difference depending on who has the percieved advantage) for a draw then you can indeed choose to decline it.

F

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Originally posted by XanthosNZ
Claiming a draw is not the same as asking for a draw ... (semantic difference depending on who has the percieved advantage)
Right you are.

m

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Originally posted by BLReid
[b]If you had played 50 g7 instead of 50 g3, I believe you would have had better chances for the win.
Help me out here. After 50.g7 Rg8 how should White play for the win?

dsR

Big D

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Dear fraser11,

Here are some general thoughts on your recent game:

On Black's 16th move, he should have played Bxe3, giving you double pawns. Black then moves his remaining Bishop to e4 at the head of the pawn chain and is winning.

On Black’s 23rd move, he should advance the Rook to c4 and later reinforce it by moving Rf-c8 and b5 if necessary.

On Black’s 26th, he could have exchanged his Bishop for your Knight, then played Rf-d8. If White then played c7, Rd-d7 and exchanges pawns at c7 and d5. Then he could go after White's weak a-pawn.

White's 31st was bad…instead of a4 you should have played exf6+, followed by an invasion down the c-file.

Two alternative's to White's 34th: Try Rc4, which defends the backward a-pawn. Later, you can bring your own King up to f2 and defend against Black's potential passed e-pawn. Also possible is Rc7+, which forces an exchange of Rooks. If Kf8, then Rc8+; or if Kf6, then Rc1-c6.

I won't comment on the finale, but I will leave you with two general principles: Passed pawns must be pushed; Rooks belong behind passed pawns.

Please review Smyslov and Levenfisch's "Rook Endings."

T

Somewhere out there!

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===================================
QUOTE:
---------
I know this is answering a different question that what was asked, but...

Black could have easily forced a draw on its last move. By playing Rf6
and forcing an exchange of rooks, it is very easy from there to attain
the draw (since the black king will be well positioned in front of the
advancing pawn).
===================================

Rf6 is a straight loss, after Rxf6 Kxf6 Kf4 black doesn't have opposition an white can get a queen.

f

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Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
[b]Dear fraser11,

Here are some general thoughts on your recent game: ......
Thanks for your input. I appreciate the help.

w

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I still believe playing on would be the best option.

Yes, theoretically, the position is drawn, but there is no way white can lose the position (barring a major error). Playing on, therefore, enable white to set his opponent the task of showing he can draw the position.

The person who suggested Rf6 is rated higher than the opponent here, but still suggested a move that lost. Try and get the opponent to exchange rooks in a way that gives you the won K+P vs K ending. Once he has show he is not going to blunder the draw away, then give him the draw. It is good practise incase an OTB situation comes up where you need to do this (e.g. a drawn ending when you are last board playing and your team needs a win; I have had this situation before!).

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