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Originally posted by Wulebgrhow can you people play ...Na6 ?. I'm a french player too (exclusively, even), and I know it's part of theory, perfectly OK etc, but that move really makes me sick 🙂 I'm sorry to learn Watson advises that line, I was planning to study that book next year.
I've been playing with a line from John Watson's Dangerous Weapons: The French
Black's pawn structure is not supposed to create a winning king and pawn endgame, but in a three minute blitz game an error in a drawn position ...
[pgn][Event "Rated game, 3m + 0s"][Site "Main Playing Hall"][Date "2008.09.05"][Round "?"][White "Simbar"][Black "Wulebg 5+ 33. Kf4 Kh6 34. b5 a5 35. b6 Kg6 36. Ke3 Kf5 37. Kd3 Kf4 0-1[/pgn]
Originally posted by diskamylDo you mean Nh6?
how can you people play ...Na6 ?. I'm a french player too (exclusively, even), and I know it's part of theory, perfectly OK etc, but that move really makes me sick 🙂 I'm sorry to learn Watson advises that line, I was planning to study that book next year.
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Originally posted by diskamylyes Nh6 is an interesting move, not only playable but playable with a purpose! Swedish I.M Ari Zeigler states that it he uses it for psychological effect, every french player knows that the knight is heading for f5 anyway, so why Na6? the reason is that it simply confuses some white players, they think that it will be better for them after BxNa6 doubling the black pawns which, lets face it would be rather ugly, but the point is afterward white has not got so many good moves and this is the real point, black gets quick play against the white center after he plays our favorite move f6 and retaking with the queen say, the ganging up on the white center is very efficient, check this out.
how can you people play ...Na6 ?. I'm a french player too (exclusively, even), and I know it's part of theory, perfectly OK etc, but that move really makes me sick 🙂 I'm sorry to learn Watson advises that line, I was planning to study that book next year.
Originally posted by diskamylI agree the h pawns are ugly and it was hard to become comfortable playing it. But, in preparing for an opponent that I knew would play the advance, I studied the line and very easily equalized despite a rating difference of three entire classes. I lost, but gained valuable experience. Since then, I've scored plenty with the system.
sorry, yes I meant Nh6. I was fooling around anyway.
The advance used to be a pain; now I look forward to it.
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Originally posted by WulebgrI always meet the advance (1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5) with 4...Qb6 almost no matter what white plays in the 4th move, and if the white moves his light squared bishop, exchange it with ...Bd7 and then ...Bb5. In other cases, just try to play on the queenside, and wait for a long while before moving the g1 knight, leaving my king uncastled for several moves.
I agree the h pawns are ugly and it was hard to become comfortable playing it. But, in preparing for an opponent that I knew would play the advance, I studied the line and very easily equalized despite a rating difference of three entire classes. I lost, but gained valuable experience. Since then, I've scored plenty with the system.
The advance used to be a pain; now I look forward to it.
Originally posted by diskamyl4..Qb6 is a 'good move', it combines an attack on the center with an attack on the b pawn, however Ziegler says that he does not like this move, 'its too early to decide that the queen should go there, no we should wait with the queen', and anyway its very powerful on d8 as it stands! Actually the move 5..Bd7 for black is a brilliant move, its designed to prevent its white counterpart from going to b5 and the beautiful square d3 where it would be very powerful. e.g (1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. Nf3 Bd7 6. Bb5 Nxe5 7. Bxd7+ Nxd7) and white loses a pawn like nothing, and if 6. Bd3 cxd4 7. cxd4 Qb6 and the pawn hangs, even after 8. Be3, trying to defend the pawn Qxb2.
I always meet the advance (1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5) with 4...Qb6 almost no matter what white plays in the 4th move, and if the white moves his light squared bishop, exchange it with ...Bd7 and then ...Bb5. In other cases, just try to play on the queenside, and wait for a long while before moving the g1 knight, leaving my king uncastled for several moves.
honestly if you like the French defense, have a look at Zieglers chessbase dvd, it is without exaggeration the best chess instruction that i have ever received and covers everything, advanced, tarrasch, exchange, kings indian attack etc etc.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieyes, I like the french, it's the only opening I use against e4, and I even meet d4 with ...e6 to have the chance of transposing. thanks for the tip, I'll check if I can find any more reviews.
4..Qb6 is a 'good move', it combines an attack on the center with an attack on the b pawn, however Ziegler says that he does not like this move, 'its too early to decide that the queen should go there, no we should wait with the queen', and anyway its very powerful on d8 as it stands! Actually the move 5..Bd7 for black is a brilliant move, its desi ...[text shortened]... r received and covers everything, advanced, tarrasch, exchange, kings indian attack etc etc.
I don't agree with him about ...Qb6 though. What else could be played? if 4...Nc6 instead of ...Qb6, then black has given up the option of going for ...Bd2, ...Bb5 and exchanging this bad bishop for white's good one, at least for a long while.
these are all clear, simple plans for black in the french: exchanging the bad bishop, trying to control the queenside, eyeing on d4, and I think ...Qb6 is just the move to do that.
actually I think the same thing he says about ...Qb6 is more accurate for the ...Nc6. You don't know if it belongs there yet. In many lines black wants to play ...Rc8, open up the c file and control it if white lets it, and Nc6 gets in the way.
Also in some cases when black plays ...Ne7 and then ...Nf5, the other knight is of well use in d7, eyeing an ...f6 break.
here's an example, from one of Weyerstrass' games:
by the way, I realise of course that these are all a matter of preference, probably Nc6 instead of Qb6, or that ugly looking Nh6 is equally good for black.
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I still cannot believe Nh6 can possibly be a good move, and it's completely against the nature of the opening, stylistically it changes the roles of the sides: black has to do everything he can to launch a kingside attack utilising the open g and if possible, the f file, or else he will have a clearly losing endgame. It becomes razorsharp very quickly. In almost all other lines however, black just tries to keep a solid game and counter attack, which I believe is the true "french spirit".🙂
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Originally posted by diskamylyes entirely, it depends on taste that all, i myself do not like Qb6, i would rather play Nc6 and have the white squared bishop on d7 for the reasons mentioned above, 'bad bishop', should come with a subjective clause attached to it, yes it is true that it is at present passive, but it is a wonderful defensive piece, and as it is my understanding the whole spirit and point of the french advanced variation at least is to eliminate whites strong central pawns on d4 and e5, in which this bishop will play no part these being dark squares.
yes, I like the french, it's the only opening I use against e4, and I even meet d4 with ...e6 to have the chance of transposing. thanks for the tip, I'll check if I can find any more reviews.
I don't agree with him about ...Qb6 though. What else could be played? if 4...Nc6 instead of ...Qb6, then black has given up the option of going for ...Bd2, ...Bb5 ying to control the queenside, eyeing on d4, and I think ...Qb6 is just the move to do that.
also whether the french should be played queen side is again a personal decision, its like saying that the kings indian defence should only be played against the kingside when Kasimzhanof clearly shows that in can be played queenside, therefore in many variations of the french black actualy does invade on the kingside,especially on the dark squares, again its probably a matter of taste.
i myself would never play the winnawer variation, blacks dark squared bishop is very powerful piece and i would be loathe to give it up!
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Originally posted by diskamylhow many tempi has waerstrass wasted here as opposed to the white bishop ?, 2 or three at least, can that be good ?, although i realize that its hard to argue with success. 😀
yes, I like the french, it's the only opening I use against e4, and I even meet d4 with ...e6 to have the chance of transposing. thanks for the tip, I'll check if I can find any more reviews.
I don't agree with him about ...Qb6 though. What else could be played? if 4...Nc6 instead of ...Qb6, then black has given up the option of going for ...Bd2, ...Bb5 y Nc6 instead of Qb6, or that ugly looking Nh6 is equally good for black.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf I'm looking at it correctly, probably only 1 tempo. If you imagine the starting position with the bishops off the board, the position after Qxd3 can be reached with loss of one tempo by black. I don't know if this is the right method though.
how many tempi has waerstrass wasted here as opposed to the white bishop ?, 2 or three at least, can that be good ?, although i realize that its hard to argue with success. 😀
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI checked out the DVD you are talking about, it's highly praised, and I'm convinced it's very good, but after finding out he doesn't cover the winawer too (which is my main line after 3.Nc3), I think I would better look for other resources where I could learn more about my own repertuare, considering the dvd is really expensive. Thanks again though.
how many tempi has waerstrass wasted here as opposed to the white bishop ?, 2 or three at least, can that be good ?, although i realize that its hard to argue with success. 😀
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Originally posted by WulebgrIsn't that the game that gave Fischer a clean sweep at the US open in 63?
I've been playing with a line from John Watson's Dangerous Weapons: The French
Black's pawn structure is not supposed to create a winning king and pawn endgame, but in a three minute blitz game an error in a drawn position ...
[pgn][Event "Rated game, 3m + 0s"][Site "Main Playing Hall"][Date "2008.09.05"][Round "?"][White "Simbar"][Black "Wulebg 5+ 33. Kf4 Kh6 34. b5 a5 35. b6 Kg6 36. Ke3 Kf5 37. Kd3 Kf4 0-1[/pgn]
Denker? It was a position very similar to the ending position shown.