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  1. 22 Aug '10 17:01 / 1 edit
    Greenpawn, I think you are the logical person for me to ask this question. I am sick of the Ruy Lopez opening and sending my bishop up to b5 only to get chased back a bit. And Guoco piano is a bit closed up for me, so what do you (Greenpawn or any of you mates) think about learning the scotch opening? I saw a video on it and it spoke to me.

    I don't know if I am allowed to post this here since I am still in the bates motel....

    Grit
  2. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    22 Aug '10 17:28
    Originally posted by grit
    Greenpawn, I think you are the logical person for me to ask this question. I am sick of the Ruy Lopez opening and sending my bishop up to b5 only to get chased back a bit. And Guoco piano is a bit closed up for me, so what do you (Greenpawn or any of you mates) think about learning the scotch opening? I saw a video on it and it spoke to me.

    I don't know if I am allowed to post this here since I am still in the bates motel....

    Grit
    The Ruy Lopez and GiuoccoPiano are Bread n Butter Openings.
    I would honestly stick with them until your grade improves.
    (And maybe stick with them after that too!)
  3. 22 Aug '10 17:47 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by grit
    Greenpawn, I think you are the logical person for me to ask this question. I am sick of the Ruy Lopez opening and sending my bishop up to b5 only to get chased back a bit. And Guoco piano is a bit closed up for me, so what do you (Greenpawn or any of you mates) think about learning the scotch opening? I saw a video on it and it spoke to me.

    I don't know if I am allowed to post this here since I am still in the bates motel....

    Grit
    Sometimes it's better to just do something and ask for forgiveness later. 🙂

    My uninformed opinion - Try different openings, mix them up. Try the Ruy one time, the Giuocco another, the Scotch another, then the Petroff, then the French, etc. However, I only know the first few moves of any of these openings. 🙂

    Grit, at our level, which opening we use isn't really that important. But if trying a variety of openings keeps you from getting bored and stale, then by all means, do it.

    Edit - I might add, please don't get obsessed with openings. Learn just enough moves to get you into the opening, and then "wing it" the rest of the way. You want to improve your tactical ability, not your memorization of opening lines.
  4. Standard member Thabtos
    I am become Death
    22 Aug '10 17:53
    Don't listen to Wolfgang.

    There is nothing wrong with learning the Scotch at any level.

    1. e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6


    There are two big variations for white here, the 4 Knights, in which white plays 5.Nc3 and the Mieses variation, in which white plays 5.Nxc6.

    My coach has me play the Mieses, but I think you probably should first try out the 4 knights until you develop your tactical ability.
  5. 22 Aug '10 18:04
    Originally posted by Thabtos
    Don't listen to Wolfgang.

    There is nothing wrong with learning the Scotch at any level.

    1. e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6


    There are two big variations for white here, the 4 Knights, in which white plays 5.Nc3 and the Mieses variation, in which white plays 5.Nxc6.

    My coach has me play the Mieses, but I think you probably should first try out the 4 knights until you develop your tactical ability.
    4. ... Bc5 is one of the reasons I don't like the Scotch for white. I'd love to only play against 4. ... Nf6.

    Also, the Ruy may be best but there are way too may defenses to learn.

    I don't use either of these.
  6. 22 Aug '10 18:11
    I did not know that B5 was in the scotch. If so I may go back to guoco piano. At least with b4 I don't have to retreat.

    Grit
  7. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    22 Aug '10 18:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Thabtos
    Don't listen to Wolfgang.

    There is nothing wrong with learning the Scotch at any level.

    1. e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6


    There are two big variations for white here, the 4 Knights, in which white plays 5.Nc3 and the Mieses variation, in which white plays 5.Nxc6.

    My coach has me play the Mieses, but I think you probably should first try out the 4 knights until you develop your tactical ability.
    Come on the guy is P1000 ... he just needs practice and to learn some basic tactics, the Italian and Spanish games will give him this.

    Fretting about openings is totally pointless at his level.

    Edit:
    Apologies Grit; the above suddenly seemed very condescending which was
    not my intent! Just enjoy your chess - I think MadRook had some good advice.

    Personally I know the first few moves of Reti, Pirc, AlbinCounter then I wing it!

    Good Luck
  8. 22 Aug '10 18:17
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Come on the guy is P1000 ... he just needs practice and to learn some basic tactics, the Italian and Spanish games will give him this.

    Fretting about openings is totally pointless at his level.
    OK ...
    The Scotch is playable, but even at my level is very hard for me to get an advantage (even against some lower rated players).

    As for the Ruy, it is a long winded pressure system. The play is very sophisticated, and there are too many defenses.

    I'd say the Italian is the best way to go. All the pieces go to optimal squares, and a nice tactical game can come right out of the opening.

    As Ken Smith used to say,

    "Your first name is tactics. Your middle name is tactics. And your last name is tactics." (at that level)
  9. 22 Aug '10 18:18
    Originally posted by grit
    Greenpawn, I think you are the logical person for me to ask this question. I am sick of the Ruy Lopez opening and sending my bishop up to b5 only to get chased back a bit. And Guoco piano is a bit closed up for me, so what do you (Greenpawn or any of you mates) think about learning the scotch opening? I saw a video on it and it spoke to me.

    I don't know if I am allowed to post this here since I am still in the bates motel....

    Grit
    If you don't like retreating the bishop in the Ruy Lopez the solution is to exchange it for the knight! It worked for Bobby Fischer while he was still reasonably sane so might work for you. You also get to annoy old greenpawn because you will end up in umpteen endgames that way.
  10. 22 Aug '10 18:24
    Whyvwould I have more end games by taking the knight with my bishop on b5?

    Grit
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    22 Aug '10 18:33
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    4. ... Bc5 is one of the reasons I don't like the Scotch for white. I'd love to only play against 4. ... Nf6.

    Also, the Ruy may be best but there are way too may defenses to learn.

    I don't use either of these.
    4 ...... Bc5 is nothing to fear.

    I think the Scotch is a good opening for inexperienced players; play is logical but not overly complex (like in the Lopez) and there aren't many surprises (if you play the Piano you're going to have to be ready for the tactics of the Two Knights). White has to fight for an advantage, but that's normal; he usually does have a long term one in pawn structure.

    If you're an e4 player you're going to have to deal with Sicilians which is going to take a lot of study. If you play the Lopez, that's two massive opening complexes you have to be reasonably fluent in. Playing the Scotch follows the KISS rule.
  12. 22 Aug '10 18:35
    For what it's worth... In his DVDs, GM Roman Dzizihashvili or however you spell it, confidently says that the Scotch is probably the best white opening to learn to improve overall chess. He says everyone needs to learn it at some point or another.
  13. 22 Aug '10 18:36
    What is the KISS rule?

    Grit
  14. 22 Aug '10 18:39 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by grit
    Whyvwould I have more end games by taking the knight with my bishop on b5?

    Grit
    That's just the way the Exchange variation goes very often. It is usually played with the intention of gaining an advantageous endgame position for white who will end up with a pawn majority on the kingside. Black has a similar majority on the queenside but it is somewhat crippled by the doubled pawns that appear after Bxc6 dxc6. Apart from that, it just seems that once white exchanges the game goes quiet, no tactical fireworks if no one blunders, just a logical progression to an endgame in 15 to 20 moves.
  15. Standard member Thabtos
    I am become Death
    22 Aug '10 18:43
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    4. ... Bc5 is one of the reasons I don't like the Scotch for white. I'd love to only play against 4. ... Nf6.

    Also, the Ruy may be best but there are way too may defenses to learn.

    I don't use either of these.
    4....Bc5 doesn't give black a killer attack, and is very manageable. But it is a totally a different game than 4..Nf6.