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  1. 13 Jul '13 16:28
    Hello.

    I was just wondering, in the Queen's Gambit Declined, after 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 (or 2... c6), what is the difference between playing 3. Nc3 and 3. Nf3 ?

    I looked in an opening database/explorer :
    - After 2... e6, 3. Nc3 is 3 times more popular than 3. Nf3, but 3. Nf3 scores better for white (+43.6% -22.4% for 3. Nf3, versus +42.6% -26.1% for 3. Nc3).
    - After 2... c6, 3. Nf3 is 1.5 times more popular than 3. Nc3, and 3. Nf3 also scores better for white (+40.9% -22.5% for 3. Nf3, versus +41.2% -26.3% for 3. Nc3).

    Is there really a big difference? Isn't white just going to play both Nf3 and Nc3 anyways?
    Which of those two moves do you recommend me to play first? Should I play 3. Nf3 just because it scores better than 3. Nc3 ?
    Do each of those two moves allow white to avoid specific variations? If yes, what are those variations?

    Thanks in advance for your answers.
  2. 13 Jul '13 16:44
    I'd say it isn't a big deal until someone shows you why one is better than the other.
  3. Subscriber rookorbycrook
    rookorbycrook
    13 Jul '13 17:04
    if you are playing the slav defense white will play nf3 and id say nf3 anyway as e6 then nf3 giving extra support to the maybe possible advance to e5 from black in due course.......
  4. Standard member ptobler
    Patzer
    13 Jul '13 18:28
    3 Nc3 is better - you can play a souped-up version of the QGD with white's king's knight on e2 after 3...Nf6. If 3...Be7 White can play an exchange Queen's Gambit Declined with Bf4 : 4 cxd5 exd5 5 Bf4
  5. 13 Jul '13 18:51
    I play Nc3 in both cases, because if black plays 3..c6 or e6 (Semi-slav) I can play 4.e4 (Marshall Gambit).

    Also in the slav with Nc3 if black tries to develop his light squared bishop, white can play Qb3 and win a pawn.

    There are some variations in which white plays f3 and the knight develops to e2.

    For example.

  6. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    13 Jul '13 20:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Marc Benford
    Hello.

    I was just wondering, in the Queen's Gambit Declined, after 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 (or 2... c6), what is the difference between playing 3. Nc3 and 3. Nf3 ?

    I looked in an opening database/explorer :
    - After 2... e6, 3. Nc3 is 3 times more popular than 3. Nf3, but 3. Nf3 scores better for white (+43.6% -22.4% for 3. Nf3, versus +42.6% -26.1% for specific variations? If yes, what are those variations?

    Thanks in advance for your answers.
    I am not an expert on the QGD and here on RHP I just use the books to get me to a reasonable middlegame. It appears to me that the original QGD was normally played with the moves:

    1.d4 d5 2.c5 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5

    Because 4.Nf3 was considered less aggressive in putting pressure on Black's center.

    Why 3.Nf3?

    I think some masters don't like how things turn out after Black is allowed to pin the Knight at c3 with 3...Bb4, so they play 3.Nf3 which delays the pin move and also allows them to switch into the Catalan Opening System with 4.g3 if they choose.

    This may be completely wrong for it is just my opinion.

    In the Slave Defense variation of the QGD the move 3.Nf3 allows White to switch over to the London System with 4.Bf4 if he chooses.

    I am only a class C player OTB, which is far from being an expert or master, so what I think may be wrong. Maybe greenpawn34 the real expert instructor for this Chess Forum will step in and explain it to you.

    The Instructor
  7. 14 Jul '13 02:35
    I'm up for playing 2. Nf3 after 1.d4 Nf6.


    No Budapest, no Albin Counter and if inclined after 2...d5 perhaps 3.e3
    and see if I can sneak in a Tarrasch Reversed with a tempo up.

    Here.


    3.Nc3 must be the move. You know it's going there and you are wanting
    c1 for the Rook asap (usually). So develop and and clear the path.

    After 3.Nf3


    Black might be able to play 3....dxc5 because not White does not have
    the Qf3 trick as seen in Thread 154164 there is a Knight sitting on f3.

    I don't know.
    I'm a 1.e4 player when I dabbled with 1.d4 I usually played the exchange
    variation v 1...d5.
    I only know I dislike playing the Black side after 1.d4 d5 so don't do it.
    So I'm not much help in this thread. I'm a lopsided player.