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  1. 30 Jul '14 16:52
    Hello.

    Humans use:
    Pawn = 1
    Knight = 3
    Bishop = 3
    Rook = 5
    Queen = 9 or 9.5
    Bishop pair = +0.5

    But I would like to know what relative point values do engines use (preferably strong engines, like Stockfish, Houdini, Rybka, Komodo, ...).

    If the point value that the engine assign to the pieces depends on the position of the pieces on the board (for example a White Knight on a1 is only worth 2.7 but on e5 it's worth 3.3), than I would like to know the average point values of the pieces.

    Thanks in advance for your answers.
  2. Subscriber BigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    30 Jul '14 18:43
    Originally posted by Marc Benford
    Hello.

    Humans use:...
    Bishop pair = +0.5
    That's a new one for me.
  3. Subscriber Ponderable
    chemist
    30 Jul '14 20:00
    I think the basic algorithms use the human values. And then points are added adn subtracted for position, but I am just a layman on that.
  4. 30 Jul '14 21:25 / 1 edit
    The points system really doesn't tell the full story. In a world without endgames, I would give the rook 3.5-4 points. I mean you can sac a rook for a knight in the first 15 moves and you wont really feel it until the ending. Same could be said for pawns.

    The bishop pair is an advantage in theory, they cover each others weaknesses. But I have never seen anyone win a game because of a bishop pair. It might be +0.1 or +0.2, but taking it to +0.5 is way too far IMO.
  5. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    31 Jul '14 09:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KnightStalker47
    The points system really doesn't tell the full story. In a world without endgames, I would give the rook 3.5-4 points. I mean you can sac a rook for a knight in the first 15 moves and you wont really feel it until the ending. Same could be said for pawns.

    The bishop pair is an advantage in theory, they cover each others weaknesses. But I ha ...[text shortened]... me because of a bishop pair. It might be +0.1 or +0.2, but taking it to +0.5 is way too far IMO.
    According to research by GM John Emms, the bishop pair tends to win 60-62% of the time. That's more valuable than being white.

    I'm definitely on board with your opinion on rooks. Really the bottom line is that all piece and pawn values are relative to the position on the board.
  6. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    31 Jul '14 16:05
    All piece point values are meaningless without considering their place on the board and interaction with other pieces. I do know one thing. I've noticed over the years players accessing the position (in OTB play) and looking at captured pieces. Pieces off the board have no value at all. An unstoppable pawn on the 7th rank has much more value than 1. A queen that is trapped and powerless can not have a value of 9.
  7. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    31 Jul '14 23:45
    Originally posted by Marc Benford
    Hello.

    Humans use:
    Pawn = 1
    Knight = 3
    Bishop = 3
    Rook = 5
    Queen = 9 or 9.5
    Bishop pair = +0.5

    But I would like to know what relative point values do engines use (preferably strong engines, like Stockfish, Houdini, Rybka, Komodo, ...).

    If the point value that the engine assign to the pieces depends on the position of the pieces on the boa ...[text shortened]... ould like to know the average point values of the pieces.

    Thanks in advance for your answers.
    Those are basically the values that programmers give to their engines, but with the same variation as for humans. What is possible, and I don't know if it has been done, is to vary the values and see how it affects the performance of the engine. They may well not have done as engines basically work by calculating deeply and making a rough assessment of the final position. It is the depth that they can calculate lines to which tends to matter, not how accurate the assessment of the final position is.

    You can download the source code for Crafty and look in there to see which values it uses.