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  1. 01 Aug '11 21:50 / 1 edit
    White to move. This isn't a tactical exercise, it's just "choose the best move". No 1 point swing or anything. White probably already has a winning advantage with the passed h-pawn but there's a move here that I believe is very instructive:



    Was pretty proud of this game overall, for a 15 minute game at least. It ended in a very pretty position too (find the win):

  2. 01 Aug '11 22:04
    what rating was black?
  3. 01 Aug '11 22:16
    Originally posted by trev33
    what rating was black?
    Game wasn't played here. On Chess Cube he's 1870.
  4. 01 Aug '11 22:25
    in 4 moves he really didn't do a lot, completely handed the advantage over to white from what was close to a 50/50 position. it was pretty clear where whites attack was going to come from...
  5. 01 Aug '11 22:36
    Originally posted by trev33
    in 4 moves he really didn't do a lot, completely handed the advantage over to white from what was close to a 50/50 position. it was pretty clear where whites attack was going to come from...
    The initial position is definitely not 50/50. Like I said in first post white is probably already winning. You're right about black not doing much in the final few moves though, which is kind of a hint... In the first diagram you should be looking for a move that really kills black's counterplay. Afterwards he has to go through hoops to organize a defense.
  6. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    02 Aug '11 12:48 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Elmyr
    White to move. This isn't a tactical exercise, it's just "choose the best move". No 1 point swing or anything. White probably already has a winning advantage with the passed h-pawn but there's a move here that I believe is very instructive:

    [fen]4n3/3p1p2/b1r1k2B/pp2p3/4P3/2P2P2/PP1RNK1P/8 w - - 0 29[/fen]

    Was pretty proud of this game overall, for a 15 ...[text shortened]... tion too (find the win):

    [fen]5B2/5p2/b1r1kn2/pp2pN1P/4P3/2P5/PP1R1K2/8 w - - 0 35[/fen]
    Is it Ng3 with the idea of Nf5?
  7. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    02 Aug '11 13:38
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    [hidden][/hidden]
    that's what I thought too. kind of a knee-jerk blitz move you make without thinking, knowing it must be fine even if there were some complicated or dangerous better moves.
  8. 02 Aug '11 15:05
    No, Ng3 is not the move! It's very tempting though, which is why I thought this was a good exercise.

    The better move is Bf8! It prevents black's knight from making it to d6, where it can go to c4, or stay and pressure e4 after f5. The knight now has no good squares. Furthermore Bf8 puts pressure on the d6 square which will be emphasized after the Ng3-Nf5 maneuver you guys pointed out. If you take a look at the final position above you'll see all 3 white pieces aimed menacingly at d6 while black's are completely gummed up on the third rank (very hard to untangle).
  9. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    02 Aug '11 16:34
    Originally posted by Elmyr

    The better move is Bf8! It prevents black's knight from making it to d6,.
    does it? I don't see how. and maybe even Nc6-d5 instead to break and activate the black pieces might work? maybe even saccing the b-pawn first and killing that knight before it moves? I'd certainly try something like that as black. anything to scramble out of that hole and waiting for slow death.

    maybe I'm wrong, but I'd really rather improve that rubbish knight first.

    did the engines like Bf8 better?
  10. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    02 Aug '11 19:06
    Originally posted by wormwood
    does it? I don't see how. and maybe even Nc6-d5 instead to break and activate the black pieces might work? maybe even saccing the b-pawn first and killing that knight before it moves? I'd certainly try something like that as black. anything to scramble out of that hole and waiting for slow death.

    maybe I'm wrong, but I'd really rather improve that rubbish knight first.

    did the engines like Bf8 better?
    I used Deep Rybka after the fact, and it favored Bf8, Ng3, or h4. It liked Bf8 the best, but they were all within .01 or .02 of each other, which I interpret to mean that they are all pretty equal.

    Like the OP said, white is winning in any event, so there are many roads to Rome here!
  11. 02 Aug '11 21:46
    WW, I'm not sure what you mean by Nc6 to d5? I don't see how a black knight can make it to either of these squares. In the game, as you can see, the knight ended up on f6 where it further congested black's 3rd row. I thought at the time that it was the only reasonable square it could go?

    I like your idea of sac'ing the b-pawn though, I did not even consider that move. On first glance it looks like you'd probably have to accept it and lose the knight, a sad thing. White would get 2 more passers on the kingside in exchange though, so he'd probably still be happy... But you're right, at least black's pieces wouldn't look so lame afterwards, and it might actually be black's best try.

    I still think Bf8 is the best move though!
  12. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    02 Aug '11 22:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Elmyr
    WW, I'm not sure what you mean by Nc6 to d5? I don't see how a black knight can make it to either of these squares. In the game, as you can see, the knight ended up on f6 where it further congested black's 3rd row. I thought at the time that it was the only reasonable square it could go?

    I like your idea of sac'ing the b-pawn though, I did not even consider it might actually be black's best try.

    I still think Bf8 is the best move though!
    Nc6-d5 is short for first Nc6 the push d-pawn to d5. it's a kinda convenient way of expressing plans for one side in writing.

    I don't know if that pawn sac has anything to offer, it's just one of those blitz cheapos for desperate situations you develop over time. but anytime you realize that sitting still and defending isn't gonna be enough, you always go for activity no matter what. the butch cassidy & sundance kid method.
  13. 03 Aug '11 03:30 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Elmyr
    White to move. This isn't a tactical exercise, it's just "choose the best move". No 1 point swing or anything. White probably already has a winning advantage with the passed h-pawn but there's a move here that I believe is very instructive:

    [fen]4n3/3p1p2/b1r1k2B/pp2p3/4P3/2P2P2/PP1RNK1P/8 w - - 0 29[/fen]

    Was pretty proud of this game overall, for a 15 ...[text shortened]... tion too (find the win):

    [fen]5B2/5p2/b1r1kn2/pp2pN1P/4P3/2P5/PP1R1K2/8 w - - 0 35[/fen]
    I play either Bf8, Ng3 or h4. In a rapid game definitely h4 because there really isn't any good way for black to stop the h pawn and safely advancing a passed pawn is the best way to take advantage of having one. However Bf8 seems to keep the king in the way of the rook for some time.
  14. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    03 Aug '11 04:17
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    I play either Bf8, Ng3 or h4. In a rapid game definitely h4 because there really isn't any good way for black to stop the h pawn and safely advancing a passed pawn is the best way to take advantage of having one. However Bf8 seems to keep the king in the way of the rook for some time.
    In blitz I would play h4 every time - why waste time looking for something better?

    (Who was it who said "I want a plan - not the best plan - just a plan" , I thought Eisenhower but cannot find it on web)
  15. 03 Aug '11 08:27
    Without looking at responses yet, my low level inclination is Ng3 to prepare for an outpost, or b3 to threaten a protected past c-pawn if he advances his b-pawn. Is it stands on that side I feel like ...b4 could cause problems for you.

    Now I'm curious what the actual good players have to say 🙂