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  1. 05 Mar '08 10:19


    this is after move 12 of the Ruy Lopez opening and it look like normal Chigorin Defence, but i know that something is wrong with black's move cxd4

    does anyone know what it is?
  2. 05 Mar '08 10:45
    I don't know but that move looks fine to me (I may be wrong).
  3. 05 Mar '08 12:03 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by banx99
    [fen]r1b2rk1/2q1bppp/p2p1n2/np2p3/3pP3/P1P2N1P/1PB2PP1/RNBQR1K1 w - - 0 13[/fen]

    this is after move 12 of the Ruy Lopez opening and it look like normal Chigorin Defence, but i know that something is wrong with black's move cxd4

    does anyone know what it is?
    maybe it's because after white plays 2.cxd4, if 2...exd4 then 3.Nxd4 and black is left with an isolated d pawn. if black doesn't play 2...exd4 though, after 3.dxe4 dxe4 white will be able to develop his knight comfortably. (before 1...cxd4, white's knight was somewhat out of good developing squares).

    by the way, all of this may be plain wrong, take it at your own risk
  4. 05 Mar '08 12:25
    it's just that this is one of the games that me and my friend have been playing and he usually ends up defusing my attacks completely which is annoying.

    1. cxd4 Be6
    2 d5 Rac1

    and you're in this position


    just by looking at this position, who do you think has the advantage?
  5. 05 Mar '08 12:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by banx99
    it's just that this is one of the games that me and my friend have been playing and he usually ends up defusing my attacks completely which is annoying.

    1. cxd4 Be6
    2 d5 Rac1

    and you're in this position
    [fen]2r2rk1/2q1bppp/p2pbn2/np1Pp3/4P3/P4N1P/1PB2PP1/RNBQR1K1 w - - 0 15[/fen]

    just by looking at this position, who do you think has the advantage?
    I'd rather be white here. Black's bishops are hemmed in, his knight's on the edge of the board. If white moves his knight to c3 black will have to retreat his light squared bishop to d7 where it doesn't have much potential for redeployment. White's central pawns really constrict black's game. The pawn thrust b4 will push black's knight back and hinder any ideas of releasing the tension on the queenside.


    I'd like to hear a stronger player's thoughts.

    Edit: Black's knight could go to c4 but this would close off (temporarily) the open file, black's only advantage.
  6. 05 Mar '08 13:29 / 1 edit
    what about something like nb7 (a bad spot for the knight but oh well) forcing white to defend the c3 knight

    this also gives way to a potential knight sacrifice on e4 in order to get f5 centre push
  7. 05 Mar '08 13:30
    Originally posted by banx99
    this is after move 12 of the Ruy Lopez opening and it look like normal Chigorin Defence, but i know that something is wrong with black's move cxd4

    does anyone know what it is?
    I'm not sure that this position is so normal given White's inclusion of a3. Maybe instead of playing cxd4, Black should play c4 gaining space on the queenside and taking advantage of White's weakening of b3.
  8. 05 Mar '08 13:31 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Varenka
    I'm not sure that this position is so normal given White's inclusion of a3. Maybe instead of playing cxd4, Black should play c4 gaining space on the queenside and taking advantage of White's weakening of b3.
    a3 is supporting a b4 push

    not to mention the whole position becomes really closed which gives white time in order to prepare a king side attack with nbd2, nf1, ng3
  9. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    05 Mar '08 13:46
    Originally posted by banx99
    a3 is supporting a b4 push

    not to mention the whole position becomes really closed which gives white time in order to prepare a king side attack with nbd2, nf1, ng3
    why would b4 need support when it's not threatened?
  10. 05 Mar '08 13:50
    if it wasn't for cxd4 then it wuld be threatened

    i'm sure that i've read somewhere that cxd4 is bad, but i'm not sure where
  11. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    05 Mar '08 13:56
    Originally posted by banx99
    if it wasn't for cxd4 then it wuld be threatened

    i'm sure that i've read somewhere that cxd4 is bad, but i'm not sure where
    yes but cxd is already played in your position? and what would you accomplish with b4 anyway? black just gets a nice defended knight on c4. and if white exchanges that, black has a passed pawn.
  12. 05 Mar '08 13:57
    Originally posted by banx99
    a3 is supporting a b4 push

    not to mention the whole position becomes really closed which gives white time in order to prepare a king side attack with nbd2, nf1, ng3
    If I had white I would forget about a kingside attack... that's where black's strengths lie. A kingside attack would allow black to swap off his problem pieces (bishops) for your active pieces. Rather maintain the tension and advantage on the queenside and focus your energies there.
  13. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    05 Mar '08 14:03
    Originally posted by Green Paladin
    If I had white I would forget about a kingside attack... that's where black's strengths lie. A kingside attack would allow black to swap off his problem pieces (bishops) for your active pieces. Rather maintain the tension and advantage on the queenside and focus your energies there.
    black doesn't really have much squares he can use on kingside. I would first take cxd to develop the b-knight on c3, then probably just storm black king.
  14. 05 Mar '08 14:05
    Originally posted by banx99
    a3 is supporting a b4 push

    not to mention the whole position becomes really closed which gives white time in order to prepare a king side attack with nbd2, nf1, ng3
    >> a3 is supporting a b4 push

    But after c4, if White playes b4, Black plays cxb4 and White’s c-pawn is weak on the semi-open file. So a3 is proven to waste time.

    >> not to mention the whole position becomes really closed which gives white time in order to prepare a king side attack with nbd2, nf1, ng3

    And what if Black prepares on the kingside too? Plus I don’t agree that the queenside is closed. Black can play a5, b4, etc.