Originally posted by paperI checked the help section and didn't find rules for Correspondence Chess but I bet they are similar to rules you can find at
Where are internet copies of the Correspondence Chess rules?
http://www.uschess.org/cc/ccrules.html
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Bench/5505/Rules.html
what do you mean by the rules? Do you mean the basic chess rules, or how do the correspondance chess rules differ from standard?
In correspondance chess you are allowed to refer to books & databases (although I don't personally like the use of the latter), but you can't use a chess engine to make the moves for you, or consult another person. Basically you can use whatever resourses you can find to help you decide which move you should make next, but you can't use another "intelegence" to decide that move for you.
Originally posted by PhlabibitThanks. The US Chess Federation, at
I checked the help section and didn't find rules for Correspondence Chess but I bet they are similar to rules you can find at
http://www.uschess.org/cc/ccrules.html
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Bench/5505/Rules.html
http://www.uschess.org/cc/ccrules.html
the rules say, in part 3,
"You may consult chess books and periodicals but not other players. You cannot use a computer or computer program to evaluate a game but you may use computers for record keeping."
Looks like USCF doesn't allow computer databases, since they help evaluate a game.
At ICCF http://www.iccf.com/ I found a download RulesOfPlay.zip but can't find any mention of computer databases.
So I wonder where the notion that databases are allowed in cc came from. I guess its allowed in some other big organization?
Originally posted by paperI'm wondering if the thought is that a computer database is simply a collection of games and information like a book or a periodical would have. A computer program would be a means to have the computer make the moves for you.
Thanks. The US Chess Federation, at
http://www.uschess.org/cc/ccrules.html
the rules say, in part 3,
"You may consult chess books and periodicals but not other players. You cannot use a computer or computer program to evaluate a game but you may use computers for record keeping."
Looks like USCF doesn't allow computer databases, since they hel ...[text shortened]... that databases are allowed in cc came from. I guess its allowed in some other big organization?
This is just a thought and a shot in the dark because I don't use anything when I play. I've thought about using books and whatever the rules allow. My understanding was that the reason behind using these tools in correspondence chess was to improve a persons understanding of the game.
I hope someone will clarify this so I know what is acceptable. I'm trying to do better in my games, but I have a long way to go. I'll check out the sites you posted.
Thanks,
Doug
Originally posted by paperHow exactly does a chess database help to evaluate a game?
Thanks. The US Chess Federation, at
http://www.uschess.org/cc/ccrules.html
the rules say, in part 3,
"You may consult chess books and periodicals but not other players. You cannot use a computer or computer program to evaluate a game but you may use computers for record keeping."
Looks like USCF doesn't allow computer databases, since they hel ...[text shortened]... that databases are allowed in cc came from. I guess its allowed in some other big organization?
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Originally posted by bbarrI was wondering that myself. The short answer is, it doesn't. As far as I'm concerned, a database is just a book in electronic format. Now, if you start using the engine... that's another story.
How exactly does a chess database help to evaluate a game?
For anyone interested, here's a couple links I found w/ the appropriate sections quoted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IECC - International Email Chess Club
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Midfield/1264/guide.txt
7. Rules of Play/Time Controls
7.1 Players are free to consult chess publications or literature in printed or electronic form. Any other form of consultation, including the use of computer chess programmes that analyse a position and suggest moves or play chess games, is prohibited.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WCCF - World Correspondence Chess Federation
http://www.ewccf.com/rules.htm#RULE8
8. CONSULTATION:
a. Players are free to consult chess publications or literature, in printed or electronic form. Advise from another chess player is strictly forbidden.
b. The use of a chess engine (such as Chessmaster, Fritz, Rebel, etc.) or any other form of electronic consultation is strictly forbidden.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
Originally posted by jhegenerI agree that databases should just be considered electronic literature. Besides the increased efficiency, there is no substantial difference between the use of a database and the use of a book that holds a collection of games.
I was wondering that myself. The short answer is, it doesn't. As far as I'm concerned, a database is just a book in electronic format. Now, if you start using the engine... that's another story.
For anyone interested, here's a couple links I found w/ the appropriate sections quoted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IECC - Internation Email Chess C ...[text shortened]... ion is strictly forbidden.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
Originally posted by bbarrDoesn't much matter either way... I've rarely had a game stay in book for more than five moves.
I agree that databases should just be considered electronic literature. Besides the increased efficiency, there is no substantial difference between the use of a database and the use of a book that holds a collection of games.
I guess, in theory, that should mean that the last move was relatively weak but I'm not adept enough to understand why or how to take advantage of it.
Originally posted by bbarrMy son "Paper" and his friends have gone to Florida for Spring Break. As I understand it, his chess friends have Chessbase ( and Megabase?) and can search positions and find many master games that are winning for whatever side is being played. I don't think any of them realize how quickly we depart from grandmaster lines here.😉
How exactly does a chess database help to evaluate a game?
Originally posted by Chuck SmartI think for many (most) of us, just blindly following grandmaster play in our games would end up hurting more than helping the positions. If a really talented GM (that's redundant) is able to make a move with the intent of influencing a position that is 10 or 15 moves away, the likelihood of one of us being able to attain that position when opponent is not reciprocating like the GM's opponent was is essential nil. The net result is that we will likely overlook a flaw in our position that the GM took into account but we lack the subtlety to see. In that case then, it makes more sense to try and learn the principles of good chess play and make your moves according to them, then develop your own plan of attack rather than just recapitulating moves that you don't understand.
My son "Paper" and his friends have gone to Florida for Spring Break. As I understand it, his chess friends have Chessbase ( and Megabase?) and can search positions and find many master games that are winning for whatever side is being played. I don't think any of them realize how quickly we depart from grandmaster lines here.😉
Of course, your opponent may have the same game in their database and follow the same moves that the GM's opponent did, allowing you to reach that position after all. But then, you're not really playing chess, are you?
-mike
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Originally posted by Chuck SmartExactly.
I don't think any of them realize how quickly we depart from grandmaster lines here.
Originally posted by legionnaire
the likelihood of one of us being able to attain that position when opponent is not reciprocating like the GM's opponent was is essential nil. -mike
2 edits
Originally posted by legionnaireBoth very good points. In both cases I'd probably choose to close the book at that stage. In the former because I no longer understand the point of the chosen line. In the latter out of boredom.
[snip] develop your own plan of attack rather than just recapitulating moves that you don't understand.
[snip]
Of course, your opponent may have the same game in their database and follow the same moves [snip] But then, you're not really playing chess, are you?
I've used opening books because I like to try out new openings without getting butchered and learning the theory behind them is more fun when it relates to actual games you are playing.
Overall though, I'm sure it's a good thing that I'm forced to rely on my own (meager) resources early in most games.
Of course, nothing compares to relying completely on your own abilities!