Who has the advantage?

RahimK

Only Chess

09 Sep '06 23:56

tomtom232
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15 Jun '06
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10 Sep '06 23:25
Originally posted by RahimK
1.Nd7? Nxd7 is best.

Then follows

2.Qxe6+ Kh8 3.Qxf6 Nxf6 and black has the advantage.
whoever said that white had to take with his queen.
RahimK
Edmonton, Alberta
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10 Sep '06 23:25
Originally posted by Yuga
I agree with jfkjmh.

Taking a quick look here...

Ng4 doesn't look as good.

It looks like White may win a pawn by playing Ng4, but if White takes the pwn - his King remains uncastled - and may not be able to castle, and will be behind in development (Ng4, fxg4, Bxe6, Kh8, Bxg4?, Nc6)

The Nd7 tactic may only work if black moves his knight to Nc6 and the Black king stays on Kg8. So the Nd7 tactic does not look feasible here.
Qxe6 instead of Bxe6.

Why don't you like Ng4?
RahimK
Edmonton, Alberta
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10 Sep '06 23:27
Originally posted by tomtom232
whoever said that white had to take with his queen.
ME!

Bxe6 is a bigger blunder then Qxe6.

But the point is that 1.Nd7 is huge blunder.
pizzintea
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11 Sep '06 00:41
Originally posted by RahimK
ME!

Bxe6 is a bigger blunder then Qxe6.

But the point is that 1.Nd7 is huge blunder.
I see you are ranked much higher than me and i still don't understand why this doesn't win a piece for white. I think this is the best. 1. Nd7...Nxd7 2. Be6+...Kh8 3.Bxd7
tomtom232
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11 Sep '06 00:43
Originally posted by pizzintea
I see you are ranked much higher than me and i still don't understand why this doesn't win a piece for white. I think this is the best. 1. Nd7...Nxd7 2. Be6+...Kh8 3.Bxd7
I don't because of 1.Nd7 Bb4+!
RahimK
Edmonton, Alberta
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11 Sep '06 00:53
Originally posted by pizzintea
I see you are ranked much higher than me and i still don't understand why this doesn't win a piece for white. I think this is the best. 1. Nd7...Nxd7 2. Be6+...Kh8 3.Bxd7
Okay that line you gave isn't best but lets just use it. Look further now.

3.Bxd7 Rf7

Now the threat is Re7 pinning your queen to the king and winning it or Rxd7 winning the bishop.
Yuga
Renaissance
OnceInALifetime
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11 Sep '06 00:54
Originally posted by RahimK
Qxe6 instead of Bxe6.

Why don't you like Ng4?
I prefer the plan Bd2 followed by O-O-O, intending Bc3. White would have the initiative. I need to calculate the lines further.

I don't like Ng4 because the Black knight is very strong on e5.

Okay, Qxe6 instead of Bxe6. 🙂

Then obviously Kh8...(if QxQ, BxQ+, and wins pwn safely)

If Qxg4, Nc6, and White's King is hanging out to dry, Black is much better developed...

If Qxf6, gxf6, and the game should come peacefully to a draw without the Queens on the board.

If c3, (necessary before developing the Bishop...), Qd8!?, Qxg4?!, Nd7, Bd2, Re8+, Be2, Nf6, Qf3, Qe7 and Black has a big initiative.
RahimK
Edmonton, Alberta
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11 Sep '06 00:55
Originally posted by tomtom232
I don't because of 1.Nd7 Bb4+!
1...Bb4+ is a huge blunder. It gives white the advantage.

The only move for black after 1.Nd7 is Nxd7.

But 1.Nd7 is a horrible move to begin with.

I don't even know what the point of Bb4+ is to begin with.
tomtom232
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11 Sep '06 00:571 edit
Originally posted by RahimK
Okay that line you gave isn't best but lets just use it. Look further now.

3.Bxd7 Rf7

Now the threat is Re7 pinning your queen to the king and winning it or Rxd7 winning the bishop.
RahimK
Edmonton, Alberta
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11 Sep '06 00:57
So everyone agrees now that 1.Nd7 is a bad move right?

So basically we got two moves. Either:

1.Ng4

or

1.Bd2.

Which do you think is better and why?

I explained why Ng4 I like, and others have explained why they like Bd2. What do you think?
tomtom232
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11 Sep '06 01:11
Originally posted by RahimK
1...Bb4+ is a huge blunder. It gives white the advantage.

The only move for black after 1.Nd7 is Nxd7.

But 1.Nd7 is a horrible move to begin with.

I don't even know what the point of Bb4+ is to begin with.
show me the move that refutes it.
RahimK
Edmonton, Alberta
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11 Sep '06 02:10
Originally posted by tomtom232
show me the move that refutes it.
What is the point of 1...Bb4+ anyways?

1.Nd7? Bb4+? 2.Kf1 Nxd7 3.Bxe6+ Kh8 4.Bxd7 Rad8 5.Ba4

White is winning here.

Compare that to this:

1.Nd7? Nxd7! 2.Qxe6+ Kh8 3.Qxf6 Nxf6.

Clearly Black is better in this line.

So 1...Bb4+ is a bad move.
RahimK
Edmonton, Alberta
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11 Sep '06 16:30
Originally posted by RahimK
What is the point of 1...Bb4+ anyways?

1.Nd7? Bb4+? 2.Kf1 Nxd7 3.Bxe6+ Kh8 4.Bxd7 Rad8 5.Ba4

White is winning here.

Compare that to this:

1.Nd7? Nxd7! 2.Qxe6+ Kh8 3.Qxf6 Nxf6.

Clearly Black is better in this line.

So 1...Bb4+ is a bad move.
Sufficient?
RahimK
Edmonton, Alberta
Joined
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11 Sep '06 16:31
Computer program time.

Fritz 8, 30 seconds thinking Ng4 is better 0.60 for white.

50-60 seconds thinking Bd2 is better 0.60 and Ng4 drops to 0.40ish.

2 minutes thinking Ng4 is better 0.60, Bd2 is 0.40 and after that it stay that way.

What does your program show? Ng4 or Bd2 better and how much?
YUG0slav
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12 Sep '06 01:50
In an actual game, I would probably find myself playing Bd2 instead of Ng4, though looking at them...I suppose that they're both fine.

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Who has the advantage?