Why bother with the Nimzo?

You are totally missing the point. White can play 4. d5 (this is the threat).

Originally posted by Golub
You are totally missing the point. White can play 4. d5 (this is the threat).

I agree, controlling the d5 square is often a part of whites plan. Also, it severely hampers blacks light bishop! 1.d4 Nf6 - the reason here for Nf6 is to stop 2.e4; 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 (attacking d5) e6 (defending d5) you see?

So, fianchettoing the bishop too early is bad if it allows white to play d5. Some black defences are aimed at allowing white to take d5, but in the case of such a plan, black never fianchettos the bishop.

I hope that helped some.

Also, the nimzo indian is characterized by the moves 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4

Move 3 is the defining move because other third moves have other names. 3...c5 for example

Originally posted by Golub
You are totally missing the point. White can play 4. d5 (this is the threat).

4.d5 is not a bad move, but it's not a threat either. It can be attacked via c6 and/or e6, and it weakens White's control over c5/e5. I think that 4.Nf3 is slightly better.

Originally posted by ChessJester
I agree, controlling the d5 square is often a part of whites plan. Also, it severely hampers blacks light bishop! 1.d4 Nf6 - the reason here for Nf6 is to stop 2.e4; 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 (attacking d5) e6 (defending d5) you see?

There's a difference between controlling d5 and occupying d5. To control d5 with a pawn, White would need a pawn at c4 and/or e4. White gets c4 on move 2, but Black fights for e4 by pinning the knight on c3.

Black's e6 allows him to develop his kingside bishop to b4, which is more to the point than preventing White playing d5.

Originally posted by Golub
You are totally missing the point. White can play 4. d5 (this is the threat).

I was thinking that after d5, e6 can e6 can be played and then Bb4 or exd5. How's that?

Originally posted by exigentsky
I was thinking that after d5, e6 can e6 can be played and then Bb4 or exd5. How's that?

What? =) Give me the line.

Originally posted by Golub
What? =) Give me the line.

4. d5 e6 5. a3 (to prevent Bb4) exd5 6. cxd5 g6 or b5

I think white still has the opening advantage since he gets the centre. The point of the QID is that white does not threaten an immidiate e4, which gives black a little extra time. But if white does threaten e4, he threatens to take the centre, and you shouldn't have that extra time as black. Of course, there is a lot of play left. Both g6 and b5 are probably too slow, at a first glance.

Originally posted by Golub
I think white still has the opening advantage since he gets the centre.

Remember that openings such as the Nimzo, KID, Grunfeld, Alekhine's, etc. often allow White to build up a centre for it then to be attacked. So I'm not convinced that White "gets the centre" by playing d5. He may be overstretching slightly; plus it costs him a move that could be spend on development (e.g. Nf3).

If 4.d5 then 4... e6 attacking White's centre. I think the position is equal.

After the moves 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3, Black can play b6 and Bb7 with control of the e4 square for a long time. White may eventually gain control of the e4 square, but not without making a concession of some sort e.g. exchanging white squared bishops.

I think the way to gain an advantage against 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 b6 3.Nc3 Bb7 is to continue with 4.Qc2 and if 4...e6 then 5.e4 Bb4 6.f3

I think the reason this isn't played alot is simply because White has the option of 4. f3, and then 5. e4, or something like this. Black will probably end up playing 4..e6 and 5..Bb4 and end up being in an inferior 4. f3 Nimzo Indian.

Originally posted by !~TONY~!
I think the reason this isn't played alot is simply because White has the option of 4. f3, and then 5. e4, or something like this. Black will probably end up playing 4..e6 and 5..Bb4 and end up being in an inferior 4. f3 Nimzo Indian.

I guess that makes sence... I see now why Qc2 is sometimes played after Bb4