Originally posted by greenpawn34Richard Reti
Agree - can;t really have debate about about 'worst ot weakest' World Champion.
These were all great players.
Euwe deserved his title. I have his best games collection - excellent.
And he could write about chess (with Kramer). His books take the
club player up quite a few notches.
But let's not waste the thread. Good idea but mapped out wron ...[text shortened]... pablanca to Fischer.
Any votes for Rubenstein, Nimzovitch, Bronstein Korchnoi.....others?
Originally posted by no1marauderThe Official World Championship title was started with Steinitz.
greenpawn: Which player is the strongest player NEVER to have won the title?
Rubinstein definitely unless you don't consider that Morphy was WC.
But everyone knows Morphy was the W.C of his era so I don't count
him as never being a World Champ.
Rubinstein - a flawed genius. WWI robbed him of his best years.
When it finished Capa and Alekhine were top dogs.
Kmoch's book on Rubinstein have some of the greatest games
in chess litrature. But dig out som e of losses - silly blunders.
The Rubinstein Trap (which he fell into twice!).
But I know strong players that would argue for Rubinstein all the time.
He was a contender.
Paul Keres, a brilliant player - he would have been WC in 1948 but
he was told not to beat Botvinnik (so it is alleged).
And he actually beat Capa, Alekhine, Euwe, Botvinnik (after he
won the title), Smyslov, Petrosian, Tal, Spassky & Fischer.
That is quite a CV.
(so much for the one sentence rule - but I did not break it first).
How about Bent Larsen...He won games against Mikhail Botvinnik, Vasily Smyslov, Mikhail Tal, Tigran Petrosian, Boris Spassky, Bobby Fischer, and Anatoly Karpov, and he liked to employ unusual/offbeat openings. Although his 6-0 loss to Fischer in the 1971 candidates kind of marred his career.
Although I think Korchnoi and Keres are the best choices.
Originally posted by SwissGambitWhy do you say Alekhine was one of the worst behaved? He is my favourite player, so make sure you check your facts before posting!
Worst behaved (tie): Alekhine and Fischer.
[Although they're my top 2 choices for 'favorite style of play'].
Alekhine was twice the player that Capablanca was. In my opinion, Capablanca is the most overrated player of all time.
Originally posted by Fat LadyDidn’t Alekhine have some dubious dealings with the Nazis?
Why do you say Alekhine was one of the worst behaved? He is my favourite player, so make sure you check your facts before posting!
Alekhine was twice the player that Capablanca was. In my opinion, Capablanca is the most overrated player of all time.
Henry Bird is also a mostly long forgotten force in the chess era of yesterday,and was easily the equal of most of his contemporaries. A players of outstanding positional correctness if somewhat unable or unwilling to show the exact same zeal for tactical advantage.Nevertheless leaving a permanent legacy behind which is still popular, even among some of todays top and near top rated players. ---😉
Originally posted by Fat LadyBy "doing what he had to do to survive", meaning writing anti-semitic articles? I did not know of any Nazi who escaped justice when caught by saying as a defence they "had to do what they had to do to survive". See http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/alekhine.html
Alekhine was trapped in Germany during the second world war. He did what he had to do to survive. His wife (his third and last) was jewish and I'm sure he was no anti-semite.
Originally posted by greenpawn34Oh!!
Agree - can;t really have debate about about 'worst ot weakest' World Champion.
These were all great players.
Euwe deserved his title. I have his best games collection - excellent.
And he could write about chess (with Kramer). His books take the
club player up quite a few notches.
But let's not waste the thread. Good idea but mapped out wron ...[text shortened]... pablanca to Fischer.
Any votes for Rubenstein, Nimzovitch, Bronstein Korchnoi.....others?
Paulsen Korchnoi Suba Keres Chigorin Gheorghiu Timman Sokolov Matulovic Grivas Sigurjonsson Evans Smyslov Andersson Bronstein Marovic Geller Gruenfeld Kotov La Bourdonnais Gligoric Ljubojevic Nezhmetdinof Reshevsky Reti Rubinstein Saemisch Flohr Rossolimo
Originally posted by greenpawn34theirs a big debate over that. many estonians believe that paul keres was payed off or forced to lose big matches, since their was a lot of pressure from russia and at the time estonia was a part of russia.
Agree - can;t really have debate about about 'worst ot weakest' World Champion.
These were all great players.
Euwe deserved his title. I have his best games collection - excellent.
And he could write about chess (with Kramer). His books take the
club player up quite a few notches.
But let's not waste the thread. Good idea but mapped out wron pablanca to Fischer.
Any votes for Rubenstein, Nimzovitch, Bronstein Korchnoi.....others?
do you guys think that paul keres could have actually been the greatest player for his time? and also could paul keres be the greatest endgame player of all time? what else was paul keres famous for (in terms of style of play)?
Originally posted by black beetleMy dear friend ... Smyslov did get the title.
Oh!!
Paulsen Korchnoi Suba Keres Chigorin Gheorghiu Timman Sokolov Matulovic Grivas Sigurjonsson Evans Smyslov Andersson Bronstein Marovic Geller Gruenfeld Kotov La Bourdonnais Gligoric Ljubojevic Nezhmetdinof Reshevsky Reti Rubinstein Saemisch Flohr Rossolimo
A funny oversight 🙂
Nobody has mentioned Pillsbury. I'm not sure he would have been the greatest, but he certainly deserves a mention.
Look at Hastings 1895 !!!
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficscome on paulbuchman how can you not think Reti was one of the best?
My dear friend ... Smyslov did get the title.
A funny oversight 🙂
Nobody has mentioned Pillsbury. I'm not sure he would have been the greatest, but he certainly deserves a mention.
Look at Hastings 1895 !!!
did what nobody else could to Capablanca, and in a manner never before seen!
-GIN
Oh, I didn't name any personal choices. I just mentioned Pillsbury because no one else had.
I don't think Reti was near the calliber of Capablanca.
I have even read that he was ill during that game. 🙁
I haven't really studied enough non-champion games to make a good call.
Keres, Bronstein, and pre-war Rubinstein certainly make the list though.
I have also seen some Schlechter games that were very nice positional masterpieces.
It's really apples and oranges.
It's kind of like boxing lists. ... Depending on the age of the fan, the greatest is Ali OR Louis. Marciano (although undefeated) doesn't even make the top 5 because of the opposition he faced.
It's really all speculation.
I think the greatest two players of all time are Fischer and Kasparov.
It's just like Louis and Ali, depends on the generation.