1. Joined
    21 Feb '06
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    6500
    03 Aug '06 16:461 edit
    This is a position I arrived at in a 3 0 blitz game, I won, playing black with 6 secounds left on my clock.

    White has just played 48. Kxg7, had he played 48. a3 White would of won.


    assuming best defence, why was Kxg7 a blunder?



    Black to play....and win in 8-9 moves (approx)



    Good luck.

    ^^ sorry, don't know how to flip the board 🙂
  2. Standard memberark13
    Enola Straight
    mouse mouse mouse
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    16 Jan '05
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    12750
    03 Aug '06 17:063 edits
    Originally posted by Shinidoki
    This is a position I arrived at in a 3 0 blitz game, I won, playing black with 6 secounds left on my clock.

    White has just played 48. Kxg7, had he played 48. a3 White would of won.


    assuming best defence, why was Kxg7 a blunder?

    [fen]8/6K1/4k3/7P/ppp5/2P5/PP6/8 b - - 0 48[/fen]

    Black to play....and win in 8-9 moves (approx)



    Good luck.

    ^^ sorry, don't know how to flip the board 🙂
    Black plays b3. If axb3, then c3 bxc3 and white has a3 queening the pawn.

    Edit: But black still has to deal with white's h-pawn. Hang on, I'm working on it.

    Edit2: white's h pawn will be on the 7th rank, after black queens, with black to move. He uses the standard method of queen vs pawn on 7th rank. Black will win because white has pawn moves that preclude the usually drawing stalemate defense.

    Edit3: It looks like a draw to me. I miscounted. They will queen at the same time.

    Final lines: 1... b3 2. cxb3 a3 3. bxa3 c3 4. h6 c2 5. h7 c1=Q 6. h8=Q
  3. Joined
    21 Feb '06
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    03 Aug '06 17:13
    Originally posted by ark13
    Black plays b3. If axb3, then c3 bxc3 and white has a3 queening the pawn.

    Edit: But black still has to deal with white's h-pawn. Hang on, I'm working on it.

    Edit2: white's h pawn will be on the 7th rank, after black queens, with black to move. He uses the standard method of queen vs pawn on 7th rank. Black will win because white has pawn moves that preclude the usually drawing stalemate defense.
    your line is wrong.....After b3 axb3....you state c3, which is not a legal move
  4. Standard memberark13
    Enola Straight
    mouse mouse mouse
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    03 Aug '06 17:15
    Originally posted by Shinidoki
    your line is wrong.....After b3 axb3....you state c3, which is not a legal move
    I thought you messed up the diagram, having played both what he did and what he should've. Ignore my post. I thought it supposed to be the standard 3 pawns vs 3 pawns.
  5. Standard memberark13
    Enola Straight
    mouse mouse mouse
    Joined
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    03 Aug '06 17:18
    Okay, the solution is a3. If bxa3, then bxc3 queening at the same time as white with a draw. If b3, then the same line holds the draw. It'll probably be a draw by perpetual check.
  6. Joined
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    6500
    03 Aug '06 17:251 edit
    Originally posted by ark13
    Okay, the solution is a3. If bxa3, then bxc3 queening at the same time as white with a draw. If b3, then the same line holds the draw. It'll probably be a draw by perpetual check.
    a3. is indeed the right first move, however The game is far from drawn, black does not have to settle for perpectual check.

    note: - if your using a computer it will state it is drawn, that is until it can see far enough into the position....
  7. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    bigdogghouse.com/RHP
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    03 Aug '06 17:57
    Originally posted by Shinidoki
    This is a position I arrived at in a 3 0 blitz game, I won, playing black with 6 secounds left on my clock.

    White has just played 48. Kxg7, had he played 48. a3 White would of won.


    assuming best defence, why was Kxg7 a blunder?

    [fen]8/6K1/4k3/7P/ppp5/2P5/PP6/8 b - - 0 48[/fen]

    Black to play....and win in 8-9 moves (approx)



    Good luck.

    ^^ sorry, don't know how to flip the board 🙂
    1...a3 2.bxa3 bxc3 3.h6 c2 4.h7 c1=Q 5.h8=Q Qa1+ and Black wins by trading queens and queening the c4 pawn.
  8. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    bigdogghouse.com/RHP
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    03 Aug '06 18:03
    To help in similar positions, one should learn Hans Kmoch's 'sneaker' trick, and how to stop it.

    White to move wins (how?)
    Black to move draws (how?)
  9. Joined
    21 Jul '06
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    0
    03 Aug '06 18:09
    Korchnoi actually had a very similar position in a game, which he of course won.
  10. Joined
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    03 Aug '06 19:221 edit
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    1...a3 2.bxa3 bxc3 3.h6 c2 4.h7 c1=Q 5.h8=Q Qa1+ and Black wins by trading queens and queening the c4 pawn.
    The solution I had was different.

    what I found was: -

    1...a3 2.bxa3 bxc3 3.h6 c2 4.h7 c1=Q 5.h8=Q

    and Instead of Qa1+ (which also works)

    Qg1+ Kh6 [Kh7? Kf7, mate to follow, Kf8 also fails] Qh2+ Kg7 Qg3+ Kh6 [Kf8 Qf4+ Kg7 Qg5+ Kf8 Qe7+ Kg8 Qf7#] Qh4+ [Kg7 Qg5+ 0-1] Kg6 Qxh8 -- winning the Queen.


    But....48. Kxg7 a3 49. bxa3 b3 50. axb3 cxb3 51. h6 b2 52. h7
    b1=Q 53. h8=Q Qg1+ 54. Kf8 Qf2+ 55. Ke8 Qf7+ 56. Kd8 Qd7#
    0-1 ....was the line played in the blitz game.
  11. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    bigdogghouse.com/RHP
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    03 Aug '06 20:44
    Originally posted by Shinidoki
    The solution I had was different.

    what I found was: -

    1...a3 2.bxa3 bxc3 3.h6 c2 4.h7 c1=Q 5.h8=Q

    and Instead of Qa1+ (which also works)

    Qg1+ Kh6 [Kh7? Kf7, mate to follow, Kf8 also fails] Qh2+ Kg7 Qg3+ Kh6 [Kf8 Qf4+ Kg7 Qg5+ Kf8 Qe7+ Kg8 Qf7#] Qh4+ [Kg7 Qg5+ 0-1] Kg6 Qxh8 -- winning the Queen.


    But....48. Kxg7 a3 49. bxa3 b3 50. axb3 c ...[text shortened]... 8=Q Qg1+ 54. Kf8 Qf2+ 55. Ke8 Qf7+ 56. Kd8 Qd7#
    0-1 ....was the line played in the blitz game.
    I'd hate to have to calculate all the lines like 5...Qg1+ 6.Kf8. You say it fails (and it must, because at the very least, Black can still trade Queens), but I'm not sure I could find how it fails with only 6s left.

    5...Qa1+, on the other hand, requires no real calculation. It's nice and simple.
  12. Joined
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    6500
    03 Aug '06 22:56
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    I'd hate to have to calculate all the lines like 5...Qg1+ 6.Kf8. You say it fails (and it must, because at the very least, Black can still trade Queens), but I'm not sure I could find how it fails with only 6s left.

    5...Qa1+, on the other hand, requires no real calculation. It's nice and simple.
    With 6 secounds on the clock - I could barely find mate in 2, let alone that complex sequence - nonetheless, I like that solution, I find it a pity that a far simpler, just as good, solution exists.
  13. Joined
    25 Jul '06
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    2027
    08 Aug '06 21:17
    a3 wins im not in the mood to post the variation but i does
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