# Just a standard mate in 1... or is it? ;)

Lenzar
Posers and Puzzles 29 Feb '04 16:34
1. 29 Feb '04 16:34
White king on b1, white pawns on a2, b2 and c2.
Black king on e1, Black rook on h1.

Black mates in 1.... what is the move?

2. !~TONY~!
1...c5!
29 Feb '04 22:01
Is this some kind of joke that I am missing? Any king move onto the second rank wins for black! ðŸ˜€
3. Acolyte
29 Feb '04 23:351 edit
Originally posted by Lenzar
White king on b1, white pawns on a2, b2 and c2.
Black king on e1, Black rook on h1.

Black mates in 1.... what is the move?

I don't get this either. Here's a slightly different problem (just off the top of my head, it should work but I'm not sure):

On one chessboard, White has his king on a1, and Black has his rooks on e1 and h1, and a bishop on f5. Another board is exactly the same, except that Black's bishop is on f3. There is a fundamental difference between these positions; what is it?
4. !~TONY~!
1...c5!
01 Mar '04 00:41
One bishop is on f3 and another is on f5? That's all I got cuz I think they both mate in 3 moves......dunno really.....ðŸ˜€
5. 01 Mar '04 10:22
Ok, now I'll make it harder....
White rook on h2, preventing Kd2,e2,or f2. NOW what is the mate in one? ðŸ˜‰
6. 01 Mar '04 15:52
Originally posted by Lenzar
Ok, now I'll make it harder....
White rook on h2, preventing Kd2,e2,or f2. NOW what is the mate in one? ðŸ˜‰
black cannot castle for mate as his king and rook must have moved since the black king starts on e8!
if you were thinking about doing that, it won't work.
nor will it work on the other side (putting white king on b8 and pawns on a7, b7, c7, rook on h7, black king e8,m rook h8, or in fen, 1K2k2r/PPP4R/48, how do you stop white from promoting the c-pawn to block the check after black castles? if you pin that pawn, say, with a bishop on f4, then castling is mate in one.
7. 01 Mar '04 16:133 edits
Originally posted by Acolyte
I don't get this either. Here's a slightly different problem (just off the top of my head, it should work but I'm not sure):

On one chessboard, White has his king on a1, and Black has his rooks on e1 and h1, and a bishop on f5. Anot ...[text shortened]... e is a fundamental difference between these positions; what is it?
obviously, the bishop had to discover check to make it a legal position. since black's bishop could have moved from d1 to f3 to discover check in the second example, that position is legit if we put a black king on any legal square except e2 or anywhere on the first rank. to make it more of a problem, however, put white pawns on a2 and b2 (or black king on a3 or b3) to restrict white's moves (and thus produce mate) since otherwise you have essentially no difference.
the first example, however, looks as if the black bishop could have started on b1 and discovered check by going to f5, but this is not the case! if black's bishop would have been on b1, what was white's last move? (of course, white could have had something on f5 which black captured to discover check. to overcome this possibility, put a white pawn on c2 (or black king on d3) in both positions, making the bishop's travel from b1 to f5 impossible.)
another which appeared in chess life many years ago was this: 40/7k/PPnP4/KRB5 (the position of the black king is irrelevant).
white stands smothered mated, right?
or does he?
these are examples of a promlem-solving technique called retrograde analysis which is often useful and sometimes necessary.
here is another: 6k1/ 8/4r1q1/8/4Kp3/16. what was the position one and a half moves ago if all moves must conform to the rules of chess?
8. Acolyte
01 Mar '04 18:08
Originally posted by BarefootChessPlayer
obviously, the bishop had to discover check to make it a legal position. since black's bishop could have moved from d1 to f3 to discover check in the second example, that position is legit if we put a black king on any legal square except e2 or anywhere on the first rank. to make it more of a problem, however, put white pawns on a2 and b2 (or bl ...[text shortened]... what was the position one and a half moves ago if all moves must conform to the rules of chess?
Oops, forgot to put a black king on the board. Retrograde analysis is exactly what I was thinking of though ðŸ™‚
9. 01 Mar '04 20:23
Originally posted by BarefootChessPlayer
black cannot castle for mate as his king and rook must have moved since the black king starts on e8!
Yeah, but there has been NO PREVIOUS PLAY in a chess puzzle. Thus, neither the king or rook have moved and 1...0-0 is legal ðŸ˜‰
10. !~TONY~!
1...c5!
01 Mar '04 20:46
No dude. That is ridiculous! That is like saying put a king on e5 and a Rook on h5, and then 0-0. The king is on the wrong square to begin with. You are changing the rules here buddy! ðŸ˜€
11. 01 Mar '04 22:49
Ok, so what were white and black's moves beforehand? ðŸ˜›
12. !~TONY~!
1...c5!
02 Mar '04 01:49
I-T D-O-E-S-N-T M-A-T-T-E-R! In the X amount of moves white and black made, black made 7&lt; moves to get his king to e1. HOW IT GOT THERE MATTERS NOT! Bottom line is if your rooks aren't on a8 and h8 and your king isn't on e8, you aren't castling. Never in my life have I seen a puzzle this ridiculous. Ok, just for the giggles, lets assume that your &quot;castle&quot; move is legal. It still isn't a puzzle because on the first move you have 4 solutions, 3 king moves and &quot;0-0&quot; (notice the quotes, indicating the two finger bob with both fingers, indicating I think this is ridiculous) Where are these puzzle rules you read, or did you write them yourself? ðŸ˜²
13. 02 Mar '04 13:33
Originally posted by Lenzar
Ok, now I'll make it harder....
This is much harder. In fact, it's impossible. But since that's already been explained at length...
I'll give a beautiful position which incorporates your original theme of the the King discovering a Rook check on his nemesis, who is trapped on the rank (remember this hint).

The position arises from Ed Lasker -vs- Sir George Thomas:

1. d4 f5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. Bxf6 Bxf6 6. e4 fxe4 7. Nxe4 b6 8. Bd3 Bb7 9. Ne5 O-O 10. Qh5 Qe7

FEN: rn3rk1/pbppq1pp/1p2pb2/4N2Q/3PN3/3B4/PPP2PPP/R3K2R w KQ - 0 11

Eight more moves and Black's done. Have fun!
14. 02 Mar '04 13:471 edit
Originally posted by huntingbear
This is much harder. In fact, it's impossible. But since that's already been explained at length...
I'll give a beautiful position which incorporates your original theme of the the King discovering a Rook check on his nemesis, who i ...[text shortened]... R3K2R w KQ - 0 11

Eight more moves and Black's done. Have fun!
Easy! With that Bishop on d3 and the Knight being there for the discovered attack, it is obvious white should take on h7 with the Q, from there on it's simple.

11.Qxh7+ Kxh7 12.Nxf6+ Kh6 13.Neg4+ Kg5 14.f4+ Kh4 15.g3+ Kh3 16.Bf1+ Bg2 17.Nf2#

Olav

EDIT: Boy, do I feel like Bobby Fisher! ðŸ˜€
15. 02 Mar '04 14:45
Originally posted by LivingLegend
11.Qxh7+ Kxh7 12.Nxf6+ Kh6 13.Neg4+ Kg5 14.f4+ Kh4 15.g3+ Kh3 16.Bf1+ Bg2 17.Nf2#
Hmmn. That seems in order. In fact, it's quicker than the one I had in mind. It would seem there are several solutions! The one I had in mind results in the discovered Rook check I mentioned. I follow yours until I differ with:
14. h4+ Kf4 15. g3+ Kf3 16. Be2+ Kg2 17. Rh2+ Kg1 18. Kd2#
This position was printed in The West Australian newspaper on the 8th of June 2002. I solved it this way, and this is the solution in the paper, so I never thought to look for others ðŸ˜³
Proves that even when you've found a good move you might find something better ðŸ˜€
Notice that 18. O-O-O# works too.
Perhaps my favorite variation would be (from my solution after 15...Kf3) 16. O-O and after Black does anything he likes, 17. Nh2#. Very pretty!