# My Fourth Proof Game (14.0 Moves)

Jirakon
Posers and Puzzles 09 Apr '08 04:30
1. 09 Apr '08 04:30
Black

White

Position after Black's 14th move.

I call this one "White Mountain, Black Mesa"
2. 09 Apr '08 05:16
SOLV'D (SwissGambit)
3. 09 Apr '08 20:40
SOLV'D (Mephisto2)
4. 10 Apr '08 16:40
SOLV'D (heinzkat)
Baby Gauss
10 Apr '08 16:44
So will one of you three guys give us patzers some guidelines on how to pose and solve one of these problems? If that has already been done a link to thread would be nice too.
6. 10 Apr '08 17:13
So will one of you three guys give us patzers some guidelines on how to pose and solve one of these problems? If that has already been done a link to thread would be nice too.
As I'm a PG 'patzer' (not sure of the word) too, I have some tips how even I could find some PGs!

1) Take the starting position, and look what pieces have moved, the minimum amount of moves they must have made in order to have reached their final position, and a possible 'line' towards that square, i.e. for this problem it'd be something like this
Ra1-0
Nb1-4-Nb1-c3-e4-g3-h5
Bc1-3-Bc1-g5-e7-f8
Qd1-0
Ke1-2-Ke1-f2-g3
Bf1-0
Ng1-2-Ng1-f3-xbQh2
Rh1-0
d2-1-d2-d3
e2-1-e2-e4
f2-1-f2-f3

Counting gives 14 moves. White MUST play these moves (not exactly these moves, there might be other squares that are visited, but the numbers are right) in some order and has reached the final position then.

Black:
Ra8-1 (O-O-O and then Rd6)
Nb8-1-Nb8-c6
Bc8-1-Bc8-f5
Qd8-2-Qd8-h4-xwPh2
Ke8-1-O-O-O
Bf8-2-Bf8-c5-d4
Ng8-1-Ng8-f6
Rh8-1-Rh8-d8
b7-1-b7-b6
c7-1-c7-c5
d7-1-d7-d5
e7-1-e7-e6

Counting gives 14 moves too. So now it's about finding the right order. I.e. Black must have played c7-c5 before Nb8-c6 and must have played Bf8-c5-d4 before c7-c5. Also White's Bf8 must have been played after Rh8-d8. And must not have interfered with Black's castling Queenside. Etc. etc...

Then you get frustrated, since you can't find a way to the solution, and even more frustrated, and then finally it all seems so simple and you have found the solution!

Well that has been my method, other suggestions are more than welcome.
7. 10 Apr '08 18:29
Originally posted by heinzkat
As I'm a PG 'patzer' (not sure of the word) too, I have some tips how even I could find some PGs!

1) Take the starting position, and look what pieces have moved, the minimum amount of moves they must have made in order to have reached their final position, and a possible 'line' towards that square, i.e. for this problem it'd be something like this
Ra1-0 ...[text shortened]... he solution!

Well that has been my method, other suggestions are more than welcome.
Were those he six white knight moves in your solution?
8. 10 Apr '08 18:371 edit
Originally posted by Mephisto2
Were those the six white knight moves in your solution?
No. Otherwise Jirakon would've posted COOK'D (heinzkat)...

It was my initial try though.
I was not sure of the exact route the b1 Knight should take, and couldn't make it work. 'Frustrations' and all, I had also seen the possibility of Ng1-h3-f4-h5 early, but couldn't make that work either, because after Qxh2 White was 'too slow' to play f3-Kf2-g3, ah well in the end it all fit(ted?). The scheme was made in order to show the way I have started solving a few of these PGs.

Another tip is, by the way, to take your time and not to expect to solve (your first/second) PG in just a few minutes (although SwissGambit a.o. are able to do this, I suppose). You'll have to take out your chess board and try until you've understood the task.
9. 10 Apr '08 19:521 edit
So will one of you three guys give us patzers some guidelines on how to pose and solve one of these problems? If that has already been done a link to thread would be nice too.
Maybe beginners will enjoy solving some short PGs. Here is a collection of about 50 PGs in 7 moves or less:

http://www.janko.at/Retros/Shorties/index.htm

Probably you shouldn't read the text above each collection of problems... It describes the ideas in the problems and is a spoiler...
10. 11 Apr '08 14:22
Originally posted by David113
Maybe beginners will enjoy solving some short PGs. Here is a collection of about 50 PGs in 7 moves or less:

http://www.janko.at/Retros/Shorties/index.htm

Probably you shouldn't read the text above each collection of problems... It describes the ideas in the problems and is a spoiler...
Thank you for the link. Good and thorough website on proof games it seems.