-Removed-As has been pointed out, luck has a variety of meanings, some more stringent than others.
It isn't being used in a consistent manner in this thread. I would suggest that one could argue this either way, depending on what one considers "luck", because psychological factors (such as being tired or lacking focus or feeling rushed) could be considered luck, or deemed not be be luck.
And psychological factors DO enter into the results. This includes the "presence" of the players, as the concept of 'Fischer Fear' has shown. But is this luck, or is this something else entirely?
I would suggest the ability to remain collected during play, and focus on the position at hand and read it with precision and accuracy are skills a good chessplayer needs, rather than merely an element of luck, although they are certainly less tangible than other skills a chessplayer may use.
I would also note that precision and accuracy are also aspects of computer chess engines as well, since the AI used may have weaknesses in play, or may miss best moves. Now it doesn't have to deal with time pressure or psychological issues (unless programmed to), but chess engines aren't perfect any more than human players are.
What is meant by "unlinked, randomised moves"? Just curious, because based on what you mean, the second statement may not necessarily follow.
In regards to the theoretically drawn comment I made, I understand that nobody has yet to prove the opening is drawn (or possibly a forced win for white), but if play at grandmaster level is any indication, I understand most people believe it to be drawn, although white's overall winning percentage does give credence to the fact that white does have an advantage.
In the event the computer listed all legal moves, then randomly selected one of them (equal chance for any move), any side could win.
On one hand, it may be unlikely for a computer to pick a mating move where available, but on the other, it wouldn't defend against mate threats either. You probably would see a lot of draws, but you might be surprised at the number of 'wins' as well.
At any rate, any game played between two thinking players (human or computer), would also be possible between two 'random move computers'.
This to me is entirely beside the point, however, because anyone playing chess will not be making random moves, but will be trying to win. And even if they tend to miss good moves and make blunders, their moves will at least have some direction.
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-Removed-isn't this somewhat of an "off-the-track" line of inquiry? i thought the discussion was centered around an assumption that each player was playing the game with the intention of winning... of course you can construct a game where each player makes legal moves and luck determines win/lose/draw, but this is not the question we seek to answer.
i believe the question is whether or not "luck" (defined as a random influence beyond each player's actionable control) has an influence in the outcome of a game of chess in which each player is "flawless" in play, however you choose to define that. in a "perfect" chess game, is the outcome predetermined, does "luck" exert real force on the game, or is chess truly "theoretically drawn" regardless of the initial choice of white's opening, and thus is the outcome entirely determined by the players and their choices?
as geepamoogle asserted, it seems (from the wealth of data from games played at grandmaster levels) that it's likely a drawn position. however, no game has ever been played "flawlessly" and there's always a turning point at which hindsight dictates a preferable variation. this begs the question (and i think a rather rhetorical and not necessarily answerable one) of whether or not there exists an incredibly deep system of opening maneuvers for white that, when played accurately, would lead to consistent advantage. or does black really ALWAYS have equalizing recourse?
if a system that accomplishes this task for white exists, i submit that luck DOES have a major influence in chess, since chess determines which side of the board you play. however, if equality can ALWAYS be established by black, and the opening position is ultimately a drawn one, then i think luck has no influence over the outcome of the game.