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Posers and Puzzles

Posers and Puzzles

  1. 08 Dec '07 11:09 / 2 edits
    Just found this position in a game. White to play. +-
    He got it wrong.
    But I'm interested: has anyone actually won with these first moves? I was taught it was terrible.



    (This is not against those who play it in any way)
    Thanks
  2. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    08 Dec '07 11:34
    I would never play any of those moves as white or black! Its rubbish.

    Whites second move achieves nothing, black should have responded Nc6 followed by Nf6 and can then chase the white queen all over the board.

    In this position after black's g6?
    3. QxP Q-K2
    4. QxR Nf6
    and the white queen is trapped(?) Not certain if that is good enough for black or not.
  3. 08 Dec '07 13:31
    I agree, personally. The mate f7 threat is kind of rubbish, and g6 or Nf6 are usually killers.
    P
  4. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    09 Dec '07 00:17
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I would never play any of those moves as white or black! Its rubbish.

    Whites second move achieves nothing, black should have responded Nc6 followed by Nf6 and can then chase the white queen all over the board.

    In this position after black's g6?
    3. QxP Q-K2
    4. QxR Nf6
    and the white queen is trapped(?) Not certain if that is good enough for black or not.
    After 5.d3, I see no good answer to White's threat of 6.Bh6, forcing a Q trade .
  5. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    09 Dec '07 00:19
    Originally posted by Pallando
    Just found this position in a game. White to play. +-
    He got it wrong.
    But I'm interested: has anyone actually won with these first moves? I was taught it was terrible.

    [fen]rnbqkbnr/pppp1p1p/6p1/4p2Q/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNB1KBNR [/fen]

    (This is not against those who play it in any way)
    Thanks
    This is similar to the Damiano's defense, a known, but inferior opening.

    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6?! 3.Nxe5! fxe5?? [3...Qe7 is the only playable move] 4.Qh5+ g6 5.Qxe5+ and wins the R. 4...Ke7? 5.Qxe5+ Kf7 6.Bc4+ is even worse.
  6. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    12 Dec '07 20:06
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I would never play any of those moves as white or black! Its rubbish.

    Whites second move achieves nothing, black should have responded Nc6 followed by Nf6 and can then chase the white queen all over the board.

    In this position after black's g6?
    3. QxP Q-K2
    4. QxR Nf6
    and the white queen is trapped(?) Not certain if that is good enough for black or not.
    What about after QxR, Nf6. 5 d4 with the idea of B-h6, forcing trades and it looks like its all over for black.
  7. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    12 Dec '07 20:21
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What about after QxR, Nf6. 5 d4 with the idea of B-h6, forcing trades and it looks like its all over for black.
    Why let Black take the e-pawn? 5.d3, as I gave earlier, is a better move with the same idea of 6.Bh6.
    "Chess is a game for greedy people!"
    -Jeremy Silman
  8. 14 Dec '07 20:29

    +-
  9. Standard member DaBearsFan08
    Chicago Maniac
    15 Dec '07 01:34
    I use that opening sometimes. It's chancy, but believe it or not I have not got my queen trapped on that opening yet. Ive gotten close but never stuck. Oh and I dont use it on peple over 1200.
  10. Standard member Grampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    15 Dec '07 04:39
    Originally posted by Pallando
    Just found this position in a game. White to play. +-
    He got it wrong.
    But I'm interested: has anyone actually won with these first moves? I was taught it was terrible.

    [fen]rnbqkbnr/pppp1p1p/6p1/4p2Q/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNB1KBNR [/fen]

    (This is not against those who play it in any way)
    Thanks
    Patience first... then restraint, blockade and destroy. Nimzovich knew. It's chess, not a circus sideshow. Novel stuff is still fun though.
  11. 15 Dec '07 19:39
    Originally posted by mjolnir
    [fen]r1r1b3/4kp1R/2p1p1p1/4P3/p1B3P1/8/PPP5/2K2R2[/fen]
    +-
    Bxe6! here pinning the pawn to the king looks pretty nasty for black... followed by Bxf7 with the idea of either revealing check on the king by moving the bishop again, or trading bishops and doubling the rooks against the king
  12. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    16 Dec '07 02:51
    Originally posted by Aetherael
    Bxe6! here pinning the pawn to the king looks pretty nasty for black... followed by Bxf7 with the idea of either revealing check on the king by moving the bishop again, or trading bishops and doubling the rooks against the king
    If 1.Bxe6, why not 1...Kxe6 in reply?
  13. 16 Dec '07 05:25
    hmm... because that is the best move and so i clearly missed it :-P nice refutation of my argument - now i have no idea what the proper move is haha
  14. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    16 Dec '07 13:14
    off the cuff Rf6 doesnt look bad.
  15. 16 Dec '07 21:08
    Listen I don't know what wolfgang is smoking but if he truly believes that the white queen is trapped after (1)Qxe5 ch (1)Qe7. (2)QxR (2)Nf6. Then he needs to pass me some of that LaLa. The Answer is simple: (3) D3 for starters to protect my E4 pawn as well as release my dark squared Bishop. My next move is Bh6 followed up by trading off queen and Bishop for queen and Bishop. Keep in mind that I'm up a whole Rook and pawn, which is more that enough to head into the endgame.