Posers and Puzzles

Posers and Puzzles

  1. Joined
    07 Dec '07
    Moves
    91
    08 Dec '07 11:092 edits
    Just found this position in a game. White to play. +-
    He got it wrong.
    But I'm interested: has anyone actually won with these first moves? I was taught it was terrible.



    (This is not against those who play it in any way)
    Thanks
    🙂
  2. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    46092
    08 Dec '07 11:34
    I would never play any of those moves as white or black! Its rubbish.

    Whites second move achieves nothing, black should have responded Nc6 followed by Nf6 and can then chase the white queen all over the board.

    In this position after black's g6?
    3. QxP Q-K2
    4. QxR Nf6
    and the white queen is trapped(?) Not certain if that is good enough for black or not.
  3. Joined
    07 Dec '07
    Moves
    91
    08 Dec '07 13:31
    I agree, personally. The mate f7 threat is kind of rubbish, and g6 or Nf6 are usually killers.
    P
  4. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    09 Dec '07 00:17
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I would never play any of those moves as white or black! Its rubbish.

    Whites second move achieves nothing, black should have responded Nc6 followed by Nf6 and can then chase the white queen all over the board.

    In this position after black's g6?
    3. QxP Q-K2
    4. QxR Nf6
    and the white queen is trapped(?) Not certain if that is good enough for black or not.
    After 5.d3, I see no good answer to White's threat of 6.Bh6, forcing a Q trade .
  5. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    09 Dec '07 00:19
    Originally posted by Pallando
    Just found this position in a game. White to play. +-
    He got it wrong.
    But I'm interested: has anyone actually won with these first moves? I was taught it was terrible.

    [fen]rnbqkbnr/pppp1p1p/6p1/4p2Q/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNB1KBNR [/fen]

    (This is not against those who play it in any way)
    Thanks
    🙂
    This is similar to the Damiano's defense, a known, but inferior opening.

    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6?! 3.Nxe5! fxe5?? [3...Qe7 is the only playable move] 4.Qh5+ g6 5.Qxe5+ and wins the R. 4...Ke7? 5.Qxe5+ Kf7 6.Bc4+ is even worse.
  6. Standard membersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52874
    12 Dec '07 20:06
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I would never play any of those moves as white or black! Its rubbish.

    Whites second move achieves nothing, black should have responded Nc6 followed by Nf6 and can then chase the white queen all over the board.

    In this position after black's g6?
    3. QxP Q-K2
    4. QxR Nf6
    and the white queen is trapped(?) Not certain if that is good enough for black or not.
    What about after QxR, Nf6. 5 d4 with the idea of B-h6, forcing trades and it looks like its all over for black.
  7. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    12 Dec '07 20:21
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What about after QxR, Nf6. 5 d4 with the idea of B-h6, forcing trades and it looks like its all over for black.
    Why let Black take the e-pawn? 5.d3, as I gave earlier, is a better move with the same idea of 6.Bh6.
    "Chess is a game for greedy people!"
    -Jeremy Silman
  8. Joined
    08 Dec '07
    Moves
    1511
    14 Dec '07 20:29

    +-
  9. Standard memberDaBearsFan08
    Chicago Maniac
    Moon
    Joined
    14 Dec '07
    Moves
    19318
    15 Dec '07 01:34
    I use that opening sometimes. It's chancy, but believe it or not I have not got my queen trapped on that opening yet. Ive gotten close but never stuck. Oh and I dont use it on peple over 1200.
  10. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    15 Dec '07 04:39
    Originally posted by Pallando
    Just found this position in a game. White to play. +-
    He got it wrong.
    But I'm interested: has anyone actually won with these first moves? I was taught it was terrible.

    [fen]rnbqkbnr/pppp1p1p/6p1/4p2Q/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNB1KBNR [/fen]

    (This is not against those who play it in any way)
    Thanks
    🙂
    Patience first... then restraint, blockade and destroy. Nimzovich knew. It's chess, not a circus sideshow. Novel stuff is still fun though.
  11. Joined
    02 Mar '06
    Moves
    17881
    15 Dec '07 19:39
    Originally posted by mjolnir
    [fen]r1r1b3/4kp1R/2p1p1p1/4P3/p1B3P1/8/PPP5/2K2R2[/fen]
    +-
    Bxe6! here pinning the pawn to the king looks pretty nasty for black... followed by Bxf7 with the idea of either revealing check on the king by moving the bishop again, or trading bishops and doubling the rooks against the king
  12. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    16 Dec '07 02:51
    Originally posted by Aetherael
    Bxe6! here pinning the pawn to the king looks pretty nasty for black... followed by Bxf7 with the idea of either revealing check on the king by moving the bishop again, or trading bishops and doubling the rooks against the king
    If 1.Bxe6, why not 1...Kxe6 in reply?
  13. Joined
    02 Mar '06
    Moves
    17881
    16 Dec '07 05:25
    hmm... because that is the best move and so i clearly missed it :-P nice refutation of my argument - now i have no idea what the proper move is haha
  14. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    46092
    16 Dec '07 13:14
    off the cuff Rf6 doesnt look bad.
  15. u.s.a
    Joined
    05 Feb '04
    Moves
    5338
    16 Dec '07 21:08
    Listen I don't know what wolfgang is smoking but if he truly believes that the white queen is trapped after (1)Qxe5 ch (1)Qe7. (2)QxR (2)Nf6. Then he needs to pass me some of that LaLa. The Answer is simple: (3) D3 for starters to protect my E4 pawn as well as release my dark squared Bishop. My next move is Bh6 followed up by trading off queen and Bishop for queen and Bishop. Keep in mind that I'm up a whole Rook and pawn, which is more that enough to head into the endgame.
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